The Couch

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libertygrl
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Posted 08/04/07 - 3:45 PM:

a previously banned member, iammyaspectofus, who didn't take kindly to having his posts moderated, who responded with threats and insults (such as calling me a fascist and a bigot, among other equally offensive things), decided to come back and register again under another username, fainted. as soon as i figured out that it was the same person, i banned him again.

i received another highly offensive email from him today, in which he said "You will have to ban a lot of ranges before you are rid of me", and "I will come back again and again and there is nothing you can do about it. Ever hear of a proxy? There are other ways too, I have tech savvy friends too."

i can barely express how incredibly angry this email makes me, as have the numerous prior correspondences from this person. i started the couch in the interest of providing a positive and respectful environment for discussion, and apparently this makes me a target for bullying. i've had far too much bullying in my life. "too much" is an understatement. i don't have the energy for more bullying, and i refuse to be subjected to it anymore, and worse, desensitized by it.

i have on many occasions considered changing the couch to an unmoderated environment, and i keep coming back to the realization that for me personally, it would just be the height of apathy. i would rather not have a forum, than watch people slap each other around all day out of boredom (behavior which i have seen run rampant at unmoderated forums). if the fact that i care about treating people with respect is not appreciated, then maybe this is not the right place for me to devote my attention. perhaps the effort is taken for granted after so long.

any feedback or advice on this matter is welcome. moral support is welcome too.

thanks,
sadlib
mixinman7
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Posted 08/04/07 - 4:11 PM:

I appreciate all the efforts you put into making a positive environment. Please do not be swayed by people with too much pride in themselves. This guy may have had some good moments, but he really needs to become aware of who he is all the time. How he behaves now is unacceptable, and you are right in your continued censorship. Hopefully this guy will read this and know he is not just fighting some righteous war against some injustice he feels made against himself. Hopefully he will come to learn he needs to work on his own character.

I am certain you, libertygrl would gladly permit him back had he turned a new leaf. He should keep that in mind. If he were to make a new account and never behave like he did before, he would not have been banned, would he? If he were to make apologies, and set things right with libertygrl, he would make himself something worth reconsidering. But as he continues his monstrous behavior, he simply drives home and proves himself a threat to the well intentions of the rightful owner to this web-space.

I liken his behavior to a war against his neighbor. He may as well throw makeshift bottles of alcohol lit to flame at his neighbors for not letting him borrow their lawn mower. He is simply inconsiderate.

I hope you find encouragement in this Libertygrl.

hug
isa
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isa
Posted 08/04/07 - 4:43 PM:

Hands down, this is the best forum I've experienced. You can tell it was created with love. I just want to say thank you for providing such a place.
libertygrl
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Posted 08/04/07 - 6:51 PM:

thank you so much for the kind words and appreciation. it means a lot to me. please know that you are all appreciated, too, for your respectful participation here. you are right, mixinman, if i felt that he had had a genuine change of heart, it would have been a different matter. his correspondences continue to be of an invasive and harassing nature, and he continues to express in his email disrespect for me and other members. as long as that continues to be the case, i will stand my ground on this matter. thank you both for helping me to strengthen my resolve on this, i feel better about it.

long live the couch,
heartlib
e.
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Posted 08/05/07 - 1:45 AM:

Sooz,

Yes, this is by far the best web forum that I have known, and the only one in which I feel genuinely among friends. This is in no small part due to the positive influence of our admin and mods.

A confession. It was me that invited Iammy over here. I (perhaps foolishly) thought that he was having a personality clash in another place and that here at the couch he would be OK because of the very good vibes we have around us. I have occasionally invited other people here and there has been no problem at all, but Iammy does seem to be a very special case.

Sooz, please don't get downhearted over this. Internet trolls do crop up, and it was bound to happen here sooner or later. Iammy is just so upsetting because of his being so personal and unstable. I once had a person like Iammy in a 3d club that I was running and this person almost destroyed the entire club. It was a terrible experience.

IMHO the only way to deal with Iammy is to avoid any kind of emotional involvement with him, and treat him like a natural disaster. He will eventually go away, or move on to another site, where he will cause all this trouble over again for a whole new bunch of people. I have tried reasoning with Iammy in emails, but he doesn't learn and he doesn't change. I know that his wife hates him coming on the internet because of all the trouble he gets into/causes, so the problem is not just with us here.

Again, sincere apologies for inviting him here, and I'll wholeheartedly support any action we decide on in respect to this problem.

Alex hug
Nihil Loc
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Posted 08/05/07 - 3:29 AM:

Just imagine, a lumber jack type banging on the door to the couch's lounge, the muffled shouts of an enraged Iammy sending shivers down our spine. With the strength of horrible beastie or troll, the door goes boom! boom! boom!.

And I, Nils, wearing a pair of someone else's prescription eyeglasses I found on a park bench, then turn from my comic book to ask everyone or anyone: "What could Iammy possibly say on a forum to warrant a permanent exile, and what could he still be saying? Iammy, a threat? No... he can't be. If he is part troll and this was evidenced in some bad but controllable behavior he has shown recently, maybe our reaction to the troll part of him has only invigorated his trollish instincts. How could he possibly continue the behavior which censored him, unless all he really wants is vengeance?
Paul
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Posted 08/05/07 - 9:06 AM:

People will do that sort of thing from time to time. Nobody likes to be banned, many don't like to respect the decision of someone else. You can't take it personally even though they want to make it personal.

as have the numerous prior correspondences from this person.

Sounds like you're corresponding too much. Just ignore him, block his email. Ignoring people is always the quickest way to make them go away. A troll only sticks around while people bite.

He needs a unique email for each registration, and you can block major throw-away email services or whatever he's using. Some I'm blocking:
@mailinator.com
@tempinbox.com
@dodgeit.com
@dontreg.com
@e4ward.com
@guerrillamail.com
@haltospam.com
@jetable.org
@kasmail.com
@mailexpire.com
@maileater.com
@mailnull.com
@mytrashmail.com
@nobulk.com
@nospamfor.us
@pookmail.com
@shortmail.net
@sneakemail.com


You can ban host names. When people use proxies I've been known to manually validate members for a while until the person gives up. One time I blocked all IPs which didn't resolve to host names (which gets most proxies) though that's not a standard feature yet. They all give up in time.

On a fairly small forum like this it shouldn't be too hard to identify people. I'd suggest not giving him excessive attention or worry, just silently take care of it.

I know you're much nicer and more patient about dealing with people who become problems than I am.
e.
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Posted 08/05/07 - 9:09 AM:

Nihil Loc wrote:
How could he possibly continue the behavior which censored him, unless all he really wants is vengeance?


Nihil,

I think that people on the edge do behave irrationally and impossibly, which makes it so hard for the rest of us to work it out with them.

My guess is that Iammy doesn't want vengeance, he wants to be rejected.

e.
Morgena
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Posted 08/05/07 - 9:11 AM:

No doubt Susan he is gone much too far and I hope he will could down to a manageable level. To be honest he can’t feel okay if others aren’t okay with him. I don’t know what sort of devil have ridden him but you are right setting the boundary for him as we all have to do it if someone is gone right over our psychic boundary. By the way, does someone know the course of his angry outburst? I mean there is a course and effect for everything in this world, and I am always prepared to hear both sides to understand the full story of what it is all about. What exactly have angered this man to make such impropriated comments? Can you help me a bit to get a better understanding of what was going on because I would like to understand it.

confused
libertygrl
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#10 - Quote - Permalink
Posted 08/05/07 - 11:28 AM:

nihil wrote:
What could Iammy possibly say on a forum to warrant a permanent exile

i already made it clear that i was open to reconciliation if i felt that he had had a genuine change of heart.

nihil wrote:
and what could he still be saying?

doug continues to email me on a daily basis with wrongful accusations and name calling.

Paul wrote:
You can't take it personally even though they want to make it personal.

thank you, paul. i'm extremely frustrated by the fact that people seem to think they are entitled to violate your space, but you're right, i shouldn't take it personally. all i can do is continue to defend my boundaries. thank you for your technical advice, it is much appreciated. and you're right about ignoring him. it's the only thing i can do at this point.

Morgena wrote:
What exactly have angered this man to make such impropriated comments? Can you help me a bit to get a better understanding of what was going on because I would like to understand it.

he was banned from paul's forum, and as a result, he posted a number of things here at this forum, continuously attacking paul and other members in his posts. he says that he objects to the fact that paul doesn't believe in clairvoyance, well paul is entitled to his belief as much as doug is. it is textbook bully behavior to try to convince the victim that they are somehow at fault for the bullying. it's a trap that i've fallen into far too many times. no more. before paul's forum it was a dozen other forums where he picked fights and got himself banned. this hostility is coming from a place that only doug can reconcile.

e. wrote:
Again, sincere apologies for inviting him here, and I'll wholeheartedly support any action we decide on in respect to this problem.

dear alex, thank you for your support and advice. no need to apologize, there's no way you could have known. doug has made a lot of positive contributions here and i'm grateful for that. at this point, he's made a demand for something which is beyond my ability to grant, and no amount of door-pounding is going to convince me that we're better off letting people be abusive to suit their whims. you're right in likening this situation to a natural disaster, as i don't see any one person as to blame in this. i know that doug has had a traumatic childhood, and he is the victim of cruel bullying himself. the kind of help he needs, unfortunately, is beyond my ability to give. i genuinely hope and pray that he finds healing, and peace of mind someday.

thank you all for your kind advice and for participating in this discussion. it has helped a lot.

peace and love,
lib
Paul
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#11 - Quote - Permalink
Posted 08/05/07 - 11:46 AM:

Heh, oddly enough that's news to me. I didn't remember I'd banned him and hadn't noticed him attacking me, probably because you delete quicker than I read, and I guess I have a bad habit of not checking for replies to my posts. I'll presume I banned him for pseudophilosophy, which does understandably upset people.

Edited by Paul on 08/05/07 - 11:51 AM
hyena in petticoat
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Posted 08/05/07 - 8:55 PM:

Apparently, there isn't much I could say regarding this matter given all the insights provided above. I suggest lib, that you don't take things too seriously, keep 'em light. I am not as nice and patient as you are and sometimes I wonder how people can be so spiteful of people who is trying to be nice and cool with them. Well I guess, some people can be pretty close minded.

Anyway, considering the short time I have been a mod here and at Paul's forum (PF), I have been "attacked" only once and I dealt with it using sarcastic humour. If you don't take it too personally and seriously, such instances can be amusing.

I do not discourage getting personal with people online, people in forums like these. But sometimes, you have to know if people do deserve your emotional attachment and concern. If they can't even respect you, lets not ask to respect you as a friend but as the owner of this site, why bother?

I think you've been through enough trouble to resolve things with Iammy. And seeing that efforts were futile, I think you ought to let it go.

Running in circles,

Hyena
libertygrl
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Posted 08/06/07 - 1:11 AM:

If they can't even respect you, lets not ask to respect you as a friend but as the owner of this site, why bother?

I think you've been through enough trouble to resolve things with Iammy. And seeing that efforts were futile, I think you ought to let it go.

very well put, and right on. thank you.

hug
hyena in petticoat
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#14 - Quote - Permalink
Posted 08/06/07 - 3:20 AM:

libertygrl wrote:

very well put, and right on. thank you.

hug


hug
beans
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Posted 08/06/07 - 1:35 PM:

If with our thoughts we create our world then Iammy's expectations outstrip his ability to supply. He can't create what he demands and so lives in a faulty, unfulfilling world of his own imagining. Whilst I have compassion for the his personal tragedy, the pain he creates for himself with his beliefs, I also appreciate not having to be subjected to his anger and frustration. It's difficult, as his posts are genuine expressions of his self, as valid as any other human expression. Just 'cos he can't be labelled with something like Turret’s Syndrome and therefore 'excused' from his actions (humoured, diminished, etc) doesn't mean that his situation is any more controllable for him, or that the rejection of his plight any less angering, alienating and perhaps even dehumanising.

Having said that, Pax Couchus and all who sail in her. I ain't no Jung and I don't wanna be Florence Nightingale either!

beans
libertygrl
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Posted 08/06/07 - 1:57 PM:

Pax Couchus and all who sail in her

amen heart
Morgena
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Posted 08/06/07 - 5:21 PM:

I’ve tried to sort things between you and him, unfortunately he run peculiar on me as well, just told me that he don’t trust anybody and wanted to ban my mails, now I decided to let go. If there is no trust, there will be no fruitful conversation either and that’s is the end for me to help someone. I did it for good but he didn’t understand it , perhaps didn’t even want it and that’s okay for me.
Monk2400
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#18 - Quote - Permalink
Posted 08/07/07 - 12:35 PM:

Wow. Look at all the hubbub. Unfortunately the troll is getting more attention than deserv'd. And unfortunately, I fear this sort of administring is just par for the course for running a discussion forum. Its bound to happn soonr or latr. I appreciate your efforts here sooz, as I see this place as very nurturing creatively, a real great place to incubate art in thought and expression. And it rules cause its like goin to lib's house to hang out. And who wouldnt enjoy that? Ive lovd and respectd lib for her poetry, insight, and acute intellect ovr the years, and am paind if evr an issue arises that threatens to put an enmity between us. But respect rules the day, and I hope Ive held fast to that principle. Some othrs (as appear on forums like this one) apparently cannot accept simple respect and need to transform evrything into a titanic struggle. It must be a violently churning mind that needs to find its expression this way. I know how it feels to get a rush from posting confrontational material, but its ultimately hollow, because, as Paul notes, eventually it all blows away into the mists of time and virtual reality. No true satisfaction can come from it.

SO ignore his personal emails, put em in the trash bin, and block his attempts to return, and chalk it up as cost of doing business. Meanwhile the rest of us will continue cultivating civilizd discourse.

best wishes,

8)
libertygrl
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Posted 08/07/07 - 1:28 PM:

i think this situation was a little harder for me than usual because of having met doug & his wife, who were both very nice folks in person. i'm glad to have met them, and the other couch folks i've met as well, because i feel it has added so much depth and dimension to our interactions, and it also keeps it real to me that we are all real people here, not just words on a screen. but at the same time, it made doug's attacks feel much more personal and harder to detach from than if they had come from an anonymous user.

SO ignore his personal emails, put em in the trash bin, and block his attempts to return, and chalk it up as cost of doing business.

roger that. thumb up

Ive lovd and respectd lib for her poetry, insight, and acute intellect ovr the years, and am paind if evr an issue arises that threatens to put an enmity between us.

dear MM, thank you so much. the feeling is mutual.

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