The Couch

Thank you for the time here lib.

Comments on Thank you for the time here lib.

IammyaspectofUs
banned

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Apr 16, 2006
Location: Tacoma, Washington

Total Topics: 55
Total Comments: 720
Posted 07/03/07 - 3:53 PM:
Subject: Thank you for the time here lib.
I am mean and I am unprovoked as so, I am unfair and have been asked to leave.

I love you all. This has been real fun. Please drop me a line sometime and just ask for my email in a Pm if you want it. I would love to have any of yours.

Seek your truth or seek your lies, but seek your awareness unbridled, and they will both find you.

Edited by IammyaspectofUs on 07/03/07 - 3:57 PM
Nihil Loc
Senior Member
Avatar

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Oct 16, 2005

Total Topics: 56
Total Comments: 864
Posted 07/03/07 - 4:39 PM:

Stop being dramatic, Iammy. You've been asked to leave, which suggests you have the option of staying. So stay.
libertygrl
Administrator
Avatar

Usergroup: Administrators
Joined: Apr 16, 2005
Location: San Francisco

Total Topics: 425
Total Comments: 4672
Posted 07/03/07 - 5:12 PM:

you haven't been asked to leave, for the record.
MrMario
Senior Member
Avatar

Usergroup: Members
Joined: May 04, 2007
Location: A friends computer.

Total Topics: 30
Total Comments: 137
Avatar MrMario
Posted 07/03/07 - 7:46 PM:

Please dont go. You are the one person I have looked forward to everytime I have posted.

Who's the fucker that asked you to leave? They asked you. You can deny that request and stay. Please.

Admit it. You liked teaching a teenager over the web. Come on.
If you want you can contact me too after David at:
supermario_vm@yahoo.com
hyena in petticoat
Senior Member
Avatar

Usergroup: Moderators
Joined: Apr 30, 2007
Location: Here.

Total Topics: 16
Total Comments: 181
Posted 07/04/07 - 4:38 AM:

Ehrm..What's going on again?
beans
Senior Member
Avatar

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Jan 22, 2007
Location: Oz

Total Topics: 9
Total Comments: 186
Avatar beans
Posted 07/04/07 - 5:03 AM:

In fairness to Lib, guys, Iammy wrote a post to me that was as he himself described it; mean, unprovoked and unfair. For the record, I responded in kind and both our posts were removed by Lib, although while I was mean and unfair, I was provoked. Have you, couch comrade, never responded to severe provocation online? Honestly? I'll bet you have, and often. And I'm talking three paras of direct insult and defamation. But enough of my lack-lustre defence. All Lib did was remove the offensive posts and explain why to both of us. As she says, there was no mention of being asked to leave, certainly not to me. On the contrary; she was most fair and polite about it. With power comes responsibility, but she is not responsible for Iammy's decision. That is squarely on his shoulders, and he paints Lib as the villain meanly, unfairly and without genuine provocation. That is, at the least, not a very nice thing to do to Lib.

Having said that; I currently believe that a definition of the self should demonstrate that a person is contrary in nature. For example, we may act in anger caused by pain in a way that we would later wish to disown. Both personas are valid, even if they are internally contradictory. The conflict of resolution between both personas may precipitate a pain that can overwhelm the pain of the initial external insult, making the anger seem the lesser of two evils, so-to-speak. While anger can ease the pain of insult, failing to live up to your own standards has the pain of self-criticism. The anger towards another that usually gives release, when turned inward only intensifies the pain of self-criticism's internal conflict. Then you have to live with the duality of self abuse! Only through accepting that you can be angry and regretful both in the same body can you reconcile your regrettable actions with your subsequent self-judgement. The trouble is, that acceptance is harder to generate than the righteous anger that promises to appease the pain of our conflicting selves. Righteous anger works as a vent as long as it is someone else who has to bare the blame. And finding a target isn’t difficult, either. Self-blame is just so painful in comparison. Self-forgiveness is the only way out, and to get that we have to give away what we want.

Iammy; part of my deleted post was about corporations and the idea that to pit one's self against them is a divisive and destructive tactic. They use unity to create their monopolies; acquisition. To 'beat' them at their own game, you have to include them, just as they do to those they beat. This is not to be confused with joining them. The corps takes the view that an industry competitor is best beaten not by pitting itself against the competitor but by a policy of inclusion, of acquisition. It then enforces its own operating regime on the included company, thus making it part of its corporate gestalt. That's what I'm talking about. To have corporations operate within the parameters of the citizenry, to make them socially responsible as any other person is required to be, a philosophy of inclusion into the (social) gestalt is the proven method and means. Accept them and obligate them. Which segues nicely back to the point of this post. Lib has responsibilities to police community standards and we all have obligations to abide by community standards. Your desire for inclusion obligates you to the common weal. Painting Lib as the bad cop and yourself as Rodney King, given that all you got was a no more than a speeding fine from a polite cop, only validates the criticisms of your behaviour that you claim to be unfairly levelled at you. If you want to be fair, then give a fair account. If you want to be magnanimous, then show your understanding, your nobility of spirit. Who then could call you unfair and mean and make it stick?

beans

Edited by beans on 07/04/07 - 5:13 AM
libertygrl
Administrator
Avatar

Usergroup: Administrators
Joined: Apr 16, 2005
Location: San Francisco

Total Topics: 425
Total Comments: 4672
Posted 07/04/07 - 5:56 AM:

thank you, beans, for your support. iammy expressed in his PM that he had felt insulted by your original post* (as well as by multiple posts from other members), and i told him that i didn't get the impression that you or others were trying to insult him personally. thank you for clarifying your position, i hope it helps.

just so it's clear for everyone, iammy was not asked to leave, but was given a private warning on the basis of multiple occasions in which he has attacked other members over perceived insults. out of respect and consideration for his other positive contributions here at the couch, i have put considerable effort into resolving this issue with iammy privately, and have thus far been unsuccessful.

i will continue to leave it open at this point, in hopes for an equitable resolution.

lib

* edit: original post meaning the one preceding the other two that were deleted

Edited by libertygrl on 07/04/07 - 6:05 AM. Reason: clarification
praxis
Senior Member

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Jan 18, 2007

Total Topics: 3
Total Comments: 378
praxis
Posted 07/04/07 - 12:10 PM:

I read a recent study that anger is supposed to be conducive to critical thinking, which seems to be contrary to the common opinion that anger is only conducive to irrationality. Not that this site is short on critical thinking but a little hot blooded discussion can be productive, I find.
libertygrl
Administrator
Avatar

Usergroup: Administrators
Joined: Apr 16, 2005
Location: San Francisco

Total Topics: 425
Total Comments: 4672
Posted 07/04/07 - 12:27 PM:

i agree, and i'm not averse to a little hot-blooded discussion. we've had a number of them here at the couch; it happens when people feel passionate about the things they discuss. however, i have yet to see an occasion where a personal attack has made any productive contribution to a discussion. if people need a place to go where they can smack each other around to blow off steam, this is not the place. there are plenty of unmoderated forums out there where people can go for that kind of thing.

cheers,
lib

peace
IammyaspectofUs
banned

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Apr 16, 2006
Location: Tacoma, Washington

Total Topics: 55
Total Comments: 720
#10 - Quote - Permalink
Posted 07/04/07 - 4:37 PM:

I am writing an explanation, and I am writing an apology too, they are one in the same. It will be long, you know me, and it will be thorough, because anyone that actually wants to understand why that I have acted the way I have, and backed myself into an apparent corner, should have that chance.
Believe it or not this is the sort version so that I get something up there before this all solidifies in people’s minds, which may be too late.
Anything or anyone that would have otherwise is of the natures that make our lives hell when they are. Just MHO.

I am convinced that some here do not have the intent to understand and I am ok with that too, I would be a fool not to be ok with it, and you have seen me be that fool, LOL takes a bow
I have lived a full life amongst that style of personality. And I sure as hell am not going to bow to those morbid yet very normal social needs and intentions.
Again you do know me; I have been here 2 years. I am usually nice.

Beans, sorry man, we are new to each other and this has been completely my fault. I am sorry if you did not enjoy any part of this but judging by your most recent reply it has been a wonderful exercise for you, good job, proud to know your online presence, you seem like a very capable mind.

As far as the discussion we were in at the time of my oddities in judgment and action, I meant everything that I said about your views, and the time for that discussion is over with, because it is censored and rightfully so. Maybe some other time sir if you dare. I didn’t even read that part on that subject matter in your last post in this thread. Just the first part, which was moving, smart, and only slightly naive.

Libertygrl, I am sorry that I put you in this position for the most part; I accept full responsibility for my seemingly odd, seemingly unreasonable actions, I have no excuses, only explanations if you find the will to hear them.

But you can’t expect to not have this kind of thing happen to you in your position and I am sure you know that. Are your observations of the actual dynamics of humanity not why you have this forum? I hope you weren’t hoping for it to be easy. (Nervous laughter)

You ARE the rules and the reasons for them here, you set a wonderful tone for the possibilities of individual freedoms in their action of creating here; you are god here. It is a wonderful place and like no other in its possibilities. I am often humbled personally by your skill as that person.
The problems with brawling is obvious, the first being that we can’t end them here naturally by wining physically and they perpetuate forever and solve nothing but create bad energy; the problem of disallowing it is that it is natural to our humanity to fight. You have some focuses born of your life experience that have you hypersensitive to anger and violence, hell we all do.
And the only reason I bring that up is because I remind you of the dangers of your experiences in a unique way. I do that for many people and much more than other people do for each other. This is for one simple flaw that I am working on toning and changing to better suit my society and that is, that I have a lack of ability for caring for contrived facades or personal illusions that I see as detrimental to the whole of us and that others often see as normal.
Now you may notice this condition as a growing trend in politically intense people, but I assure you that I am going the other way with it than most of them. I am becoming more reasonable rather than the ever-widening divisions of reason. But often still, as a core in my belief system, I don’t care about the illusions of others because mine are always in flux and change and more over based on things others simply do not believe in, and in fact the morbidity of those others illusions often turns my stomach.

So I have a lack of caring that I project of myself onto others in the case of helping people maintain their illusions. I.e.: any morbid belief in a superiority of a self due to education or position mainly; this is my problem with authority. I believe it to be a temporary condition of mine. The guise of superiority as authority and as projected through anyone is also a peeve of mine. In other words your education of high status means nothing to me unless you do something worthy of everyone with it. And many do not have an intent like that so…blah blah

I am growing the abilities of a more respectful tone in communication, but my progress is slow because it isn’t easy, and I will NOT do a crappy job at it. By seeing some of the reactions and praises to my writings here, I am heartened by my progress in this too.

In my defense of my employing of this often-unreasonable condition of mine, is that it is a product of my societies morbid morals and illusions projected onto the growing boy of my youth. And oh boy, do I have a need to give something back, but in a better condition than it was given of course. It has been a bumpy road in my pursuit of that as ability, as you may imagine. Sympathy is not my aim here only understanding leading to forgiveness. Yeah beans I know all about forgiving myself, I am an expert.

The only reason I can heal myself of this way, and in this way, is because even though I have a lack of love for certain styles of our illusions as in our society, I have a very real immortal love for what is real to me about each and every one of us individually and socially.

It has been the strength that has kept me alive where many of my comrades perished along the way and is and has been my drive to learn how to do it. The spirit of humanity has always been in my awareness and in ways that are not considered a reality to many in it. Can’t you tell this from my writings here? Have I said nothing to you, am I invisible through the condemnations of my diseases that we all share in part?

Our need for animal survivability has strained our possibilities for each our spiritual survivability and with a purpose, we evolve holistically because of that condition. It is the survival of the fittest with a twist of a freedom of will and like no other species enjoys. Which is my version of the contradiction that you describe beans. Please believe me when I say that I understand more than some of you may care to think.

But I like your way Susan. It is why I haven’t been booted from only yours out of all the forums I have participated in; you understand more than most about what we are doing here on this planet and, I AM GRATEFULL.

Speaking socially I admit, that nothing good has ever been created in anger, hatred, depression, apathy, or hopelessness. Which was where I gave up on beans and became an ass as a reaction to what I see as a hopeless nature that gives rise to his complacencies to the intentions and horrid actions of sociopathic persons known as corporations. Damn I couldn’t resist, shit! Sorry beans.
This is more about me than any one other person. But that a good example of my mind right now.

But in turn Susan, the anger, hatred, depression, apathy, or hopelessness, are very real and worthy paths to travel for the individual if they can be navigated through to solvency.

Destructive yes, no argument there, but a real part of most of our lives. To deny them in absolute as relevant to the human condition is folly and that is what we are here talking about I think. And yet that is another important contradiction in our reality that I often find in my awareness. The opposing needs between the social in and the personal. One needs freedom to be safe and the other needs the complacency that erodes it.

As far as me leaving the forum or not, that will be determined by any responses of understanding to the long version of this if there is need for one. If you have made your decisions already, than good for you and kiss mine because I have very worthy reasons and they are nothing I haven’t seen out of every one of you people. and I don’t give a shit about your denials.

If you judge this person, and I am a chimpanzee lol, solely by this episode then you are no better than that judgment and I automatically condemn you back and in stride with the rest of the universe by its design.

And to that need of condemnation I say that I will not go quietly into a night that is designed by someone else’s lack of faith or morbid beliefs in our humanity or human potentials that end up as our realties. I will reason all the way to that hell and back out if I have to.
And I will die by that hand in the attempt if I must. Everyday is a good day to die for that cause. Unless of course there are more favorable days to achieving victory and then every day is not, but you get my drift. But I choose today for this stance, I am the cause of my destiny, Blah Blah blah

With all that, I imagine that I will no longer be posting till I have finished this long version. Or have responses of favor to this one. If there are too many negative ones, then I am gone because I will not seek any destruction out of spite as I have in other forums that only offer BS. And I think this is a great project form me. I hope you like it and I really don’t give shit if you don’t.

All the best my friends.
Doug
AKA Iammyaspectofus
libertygrl
Administrator
Avatar

Usergroup: Administrators
Joined: Apr 16, 2005
Location: San Francisco

Total Topics: 425
Total Comments: 4672
#11 - Quote - Permalink
Posted 07/04/07 - 4:50 PM:

hi doug,

thank you for your apology, i accept. i do understand that conflict and aggression are natural parts of human nature and that people sometimes need outlet for this. however, i also feel that there are better venues for that. brawling, which may be commonplace at a bar, is not generally welcome at a library. different venues fulfill different needs, and as i said, there are plenty of unmoderated forums out there. if someone has the need for virtual brawling, i certainly would not try to stop them from going somewhere else to do that. i assure you that i do not delude myself that we live in a perfect world where everybody gets along all the time. in spite of that knowledge, and in respect for that knowledge, i will continue to do my best to keep the peace here, and i appreciate the respect that everyone has shown for those efforts.

lib
IammyaspectofUs
banned

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Apr 16, 2006
Location: Tacoma, Washington

Total Topics: 55
Total Comments: 720
#12 - Quote - Permalink
Posted 07/04/07 - 4:57 PM:

well, that was fast, I can only accept what is given. Thank you lib for your contribution.

I'll check back in a few days to see if there are any reasons to stay on here.
e.
Senior Member
Avatar

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Apr 19, 2005
Location: UK

Total Topics: 142
Total Comments: 1081
Avatar e.
#13 - Quote - Permalink
Posted 07/04/07 - 5:34 PM:

Iammy,

I just noticed this thread and I'll PM you.

e.
Nihil Loc
Senior Member
Avatar

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Oct 16, 2005

Total Topics: 56
Total Comments: 864
#14 - Quote - Permalink
Posted 07/04/07 - 8:26 PM:

Your not a bad guy, Iammy. You jostle the forum. It might seem a little dead here without you.

If you want to have a boxing match to let out the steam, choose your color: do you want the red gloves and the red shorts or the blue gloves and blue shorts (I read somewhere that wearing red gives you an advantage). Maybe we could mix it up to make it absolutely fair (blue gloves with red shorts, or we could each have a blue and red glove and both wear the black shorts).

If you don't want box maybe we could convince the couch community to go bungee jumping together.
IammyaspectofUs
banned

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Apr 16, 2006
Location: Tacoma, Washington

Total Topics: 55
Total Comments: 720
#15 - Quote - Permalink
Posted 07/04/07 - 9:02 PM:

Yer great man.

Nihil if you, and the ones that have talked to me lately are the only ones willing to speak with me in this forum, and from here on out, then forget the rest, they can keep their judgments just as they need them to be.

I should stop my stingy, needy, pissing and toss my inhibitions into the air and mock them as they fall damnit, well, and because stripping naked didn’t work.
MrMario
Senior Member
Avatar

Usergroup: Members
Joined: May 04, 2007
Location: A friends computer.

Total Topics: 30
Total Comments: 137
Avatar MrMario
#16 - Quote - Permalink
Posted 07/04/07 - 9:10 PM:

clapclapclapclapclappeaceclapclapclapclapclap
Zinkovich
Junior Member
Avatar

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Nov 27, 2006

Total Topics: 10
Total Comments: 46
#17 - Quote - Permalink
Posted 07/05/07 - 1:29 AM:

(A warning in advance: I only have a vague grasp of what went down that caused all this, so I could be entirely off target in my choice of subject to bring up. Regardless Iam, I am glad to hear you're reconsidering your departure and hope you find something of use to take out of my opinion/perspective on manners of discourse/debate. smiling face )

While I do not know the context of what occured here, I would like to offer some possibly irrelevant perspective on what discourse exactly does/is. First off, not all negative ideas will disappear in a wisp of smoke by their sheer heartlessness or lack of consideration. When being faced with something appealing in some limited contexts and not in others, replying in anger might seem the natural instinctual response for once who sees the negative while acceptance is going to be the response of the one who sees the positive. This goes back to our mental self-determinism- you see, our brain is going to trap itself into feedback loops every now and then and most of the time only experience/discourse can break one out of it.

Furthermore, this determinism causes an unfortunate condition in the human mind when it stumbles into a previously held idea on it's own, or hears from it through another. A concept once dead, contextually shown to be flawed, or once routinely and reasonably trounced might just rise into the cultural/intellectual discourse of the general populace once again, causing the idea's moment to come once again until it is once more, denounced or met with failure. This is one of the reasons, I suspect, that theocracies have formed and fallen into irrelevance all throughout the history of the human race.

Regardless, such ideas will unfortunately always be rising and falling until we as humans somehow gain an active, full knowledge concerning the context of our existence. This is the way things are going to be unless we progress cognitively/linguistically/perceptually as a race.

That is why whenever an idea arises, there is little more admirable than rising to the occasion, whether you be right or wrong. Keep in mind that all of our ideas, all of beans' ideas- hell, all of my ideas(!)- are self-produced inevitablities caused by a combination of our limited knowledge of our universe and it's somewhat mechanistic nature. When looking at all these simple facts/realizations, it begins to become increasingly apparent that there is little need for anger towards any conceptions- in fact, reasoned response and a channeling of that anger into intellectual passion/effort might seem the better choice. If we consider the cosmos to be macrocosmically deterministic(I don't see how you can think of it in any other way outside of religion), all manifestations of certain ideas will rise and fall with the realization and possible disillusionment that occurs over time when it is practically applied(provided some form of collective delusion doesn't set in- in which case the idea will merely erode over time along with its adherents).

Considering this, discussion is significant while at the same time somewhat secondary. From a cultural standpoint, it is basically the linguistic part of the realization/disillusionment process. Thusly, if you find yourself somehow singled out and alone in a certain opinion and/or legitimate criticism, it would be more sensible to think of yourself as a part of a new burgeoning (albeit currently minor)attitude instead of the attitude's only last hope/bastion(unless you're on the lower part of the practical process of realization/disillusionment that occurs- in which case your attitude's "fading out" would be a good thing).

I guess what I am so futilely trying to express is that, in my opinion, there is little need for fury and more need for passion in attitude and thought(regardless of stance). It's part of the "natural selection" of ideas that occurs in culture and there is nothing wrong with indulging in such behavior without indulging in the other. So my advice is to relax on a personal level, and realize that whatever you think, the mechanistic nature of the universe ensures that you will never be alone in thinking it(at least in essence- the manner of expression might be different). However, my advice would be to also write with conceptual/linguistic passion, because that is also part of the behavior that helps perpetuate the beneficial cultural cycle of realization/disillusionment.




Edited by Zinkovich on 07/05/07 - 1:42 AM. Reason: It's late and I'm tired. Tried to fix up my sluggish writing- here's hoping I was successful...
e.
Senior Member
Avatar

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Apr 19, 2005
Location: UK

Total Topics: 142
Total Comments: 1081
Avatar e.
#18 - Quote - Permalink
Posted 07/05/07 - 3:04 AM:

Zinkovich wrote:
So my advice is to relax on a personal level, and realize that whatever you think, the mechanistic nature of the universe ensures that you will never be alone in thinking it(at least in essence- the manner of expression might be different).


Hi Zink,

I have often been up against someone in debate who really gets to me and reminds me of an old bully from my past. I try to hold my ground without reacting too much and then, lo and behold, along comes another poster who supports my view!

Holding my own in a calm manner against an extreme poster is prize enough for me, but to get some support is a real bonus. However, another mistake is to make an enemy of another poster and want to see them put down in some way. I have seen this mess up discussions time and time again on web forums, and nobody wins.

All we have to do is join the debate and hold our ground. It takes a little confidence, but it works out fine. We don't have to agree with everyone and we don't have to fight over it. Simple as that. It's quite natural and normal to disagree and we don't have to win every round.

Ha ha, you know the toughest one is when someone shows us we are wrong about something and we have to swallow it! That's a growth experience if there ever was one.

e.





Edited by e. on 07/05/07 - 3:08 AM
IammyaspectofUs
banned

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Apr 16, 2006
Location: Tacoma, Washington

Total Topics: 55
Total Comments: 720
#19 - Quote - Permalink
Posted 07/05/07 - 6:12 PM:

Great perspectives of clarity you guys.

Reminds me of a movie called The Thirteenth Warrior.

The king said: "In battle, a man will often be saved simply if his courage holds"

This has just been yet another reminder...

Here is one from my motorcycle days:
You have to keep your eyes on the clear road, that’s for sure, if too much of your attention is drawn to the road that is occupied by the object threatening to crash you, you won't have enough attention left at your disposal to creatively avoid it.

Don’t let your emotions panic you, the fricken story of my life.
IammyaspectofUs
banned

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Apr 16, 2006
Location: Tacoma, Washington

Total Topics: 55
Total Comments: 720
#20 - Quote - Permalink
Posted 07/05/07 - 11:56 PM:

your on man!
We will have to do them at different times though.
A motorcycle in a hot air balloon basket may be risky.
Thinker13
Senior Member
Avatar

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Apr 27, 2009

Total Topics: 357
Total Comments: 3379
#21 - Quote - Permalink
Posted 07/03/12 - 1:36 PM:

Similar episodes happened with Xanthos, Doug and Starjade. Starjade ran away on the shortest furious notice. Xanthos found a more Scientific heaven and I don't know what actually happened to Doug hereafter. I suppose he left just after this thread--may be after a while. I think you knew him offline because I saw a picture of you two with Monk2400 in some thread.

I came across this thread randomly as a lurker was going through it.
Search thread for
Download thread as
  • 0/5
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5



Sorry, you don't have permission . Log in, or register if you haven't yet.



Acknowledgements:

Couch logo design by Midnight_Monk. The photo hanging above the couch was taken by Paul.

Powered by WSN Forum. Free smileys here.
Special thanks to Maria Cristina, Jesse , Echolist Directory, The Star Online,
Hosting Free Webs, and dmoz.org for referring visitors to this site!

Copyright notice:

Except where noted otherwise, copyright belongs to respective authors
for artwork, photography and text posted in this forum.