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Why does god exsist?

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MrMario
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Posted 05/05/07 - 3:51 PM:
Subject: Why does god exsist?
I guess the title is pretty self explanitory.
mixinman7
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Posted 05/05/07 - 4:33 PM:

that depends on what you think God is.

If God is that which be greater than anything knowable, God exist because "He" is greater.

If God is that which is unknowable, "His" existence is independent of any reason.

Why does God exist culturally? IMO, as a means to motivate and manipulate people into a uniform behavioral characteristic that is imposed on the masses by the few who obtain power and influence.
Rudi
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Posted 05/05/07 - 9:05 PM:

He (she or it) is our alter ego...

Rudi


Morgena
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Posted 05/06/07 - 5:09 AM:

Rudi we could also argue why God does not exist for some people (atheists). Is it possible to explain everything logic and rational, and if so, does it give them inner peace or happiness, or at least some sort of satisfaction?

hmm
Paul
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Posted 05/06/07 - 1:49 PM:

After billions of years of not existing He became very bored with that, and so decided to create Himself. Some would say he exists because Aristotelean logic necessitates a first cause (automatically defined as god) or because there must be a greatest possible being... but since God is the creator I think it's more appropriate for him to create himself than to be created by logic.

Morgena wrote:
Is it possible to explain everything logic and rational,


No, of course it's not possible to explain everything (without cheating by saying that some supernatural power does your homework, and telling all mortals that we're not allowed to check to verify the answers until we die, at which point we tend to become easy to win a debate with).

and if so, does it give them inner peace or happiness, or at least some sort of satisfaction?

No, even if the universe were fully explained that wouldn't create inner peace or happiness, or even satisfaction. Those are internal states, looking externally can't give them to you (though it can help and reinforce, admitedly)... and the universe just is, and knowledge is just knowledge, it isn't inherently joyous. But last I checked, how happy it makes you is far from a reliable indicator of the validity of a proposition (there's a bit of an inverse correlation, since people cling to the false beliefs that make them happy and shun the true ones that don't, and thus something you believe which doesn't make you happy is less likely to be mistaken [though one can also become irrationally attached to hating something]).

If I could explain everything, I expect the resulting feeling would be dissapointment and despair at there being nothing left to learn. If you hit the boundry wall of the universe like that and have nowhere new to go, there's no point to going on living... though luckily it's not a problem we'll ever face.

Edited by Paul on 05/06/07 - 2:17 PM
Rudi
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Posted 05/06/07 - 3:06 PM:

I don't know why I was just reminded of this by this thread, but:

Can God create a rock so heavy that he cannot lift it?

I don't recall where this came from, but the answer is, of course, "yes". He can definitely create such a rock; we may just not be able to understand how an all-powerful being can do anything and simultaneously not be able to do something. This is not a limitation of God, but of us. So can God create himself? Of course he can. Just because we cannot understand it doesn't mean he cannot do it.

Rudi





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Posted 05/06/07 - 3:27 PM:

Could it be god exists because man needed a way to justify his own existence and his need to have power over other life. After all, god is made in mans image.
Monk2400
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Posted 05/07/07 - 1:33 AM:

Rudi wrote:


Can God create a rock so heavy that he cannot lift it?

I don't recall where this came from, but the answer is, of course, "yes". He can definitely create such a rock; we may just not be able to understand how an all-powerful being can do anything and simultaneously not be able to do something. This is not a limitation of God, but of us. So can God create himself? Of course he can. Just because we cannot understand it doesn't mean he cannot do it.


This is logically impossible. If God is omnipotent, that means God is the most powrful force that exists; there is no force that can resist God, and no force that can impact God. God would walk straight through black holes and not be crushd, were that God had a body to do so.

If God were to create a force that is more powrful than itself, that would mean that God itself is not the most powrful force, that is, that evn if it is the most powrful existing force, there are still yet greatr levels of potential force or powr not expressd by God.

Then, if God could create a force strongr than itself, that would suggest that God could possibily be destroyd by its own creation. A greatr powr always impacts the lessr powr. At the very least we are suggesting that God could put itself at a disadvantage relative to one of its creations, and thence be subject to that creation.

But, of course, its unlikely that a being such as God, busy creating forces in the first place, would exist in the same realm as the forces which it creates. So to ask about a bouldr relative to God is non-sensical.

Othrwise, God cannot create a more powrful, more irresistable force than hesh own powr, because that would require God to be less than the most high, most absolute, most irresistable powr, and hence not be God.

Now, maybe we can allow that God can transform its own being. In which case, God takes a lessr form in ordr to create a greatr powr. But then at any time God can assume the most high, most powrful form, greatr than any othr. Hence, God's real powr lies in its ability to assume any energy state possible, from the weakest to the strongest.

So if God found itself being impactd by the pull of hesh more powrful force/heaviest rock, hesh would just powr up and take up the most high throne again to set things in ordr. Intrstingly, this line of thought seems a natural segway into a theory of divine incarnation, leading to speculation that the actual embodimnt of a divine powr in a lessr, evn human, form is not only possible, but likely. Especially if we add to God's attributes that God is 'most efficient' and thus tends towards exerting the least amount of powr to make the most amount of effect. Hence we should expect to find God in its weakest state most of the time, but perhaps carefully positiond to leverage its full powr, if need be. Gives anothr spin on the hindu idea of the sleeping god, incarnating in a smallr form, but still connectd to the absolute.

8)
Monk2400
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Posted 05/07/07 - 1:36 AM:

OTOH, one might as well ask 'why does existence exist?' or 'why is there anything instead of nothing?'

How can we answr a question about why being is being?

*peace*



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Posted 05/07/07 - 12:00 PM:

Midnight_Monk wrote:
OTOH, one might as well ask 'why does existence exist?' or 'why is there anything instead of nothing?'

How can we answr a question about why being is being?

peace
Perhaps it doesn't or isn't!!!!
libertygrl
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#11 - Quote - Permalink
Posted 05/07/07 - 2:50 PM:

Midnight_Monk wrote:
OTOH, one might as well ask 'why does existence exist?' or 'why is there anything instead of nothing?'

How can we answr a question about why being is being?

peace


i agree. to ask "why does god exist?" presupposes that god does exist. if you don't believe in god, or if we're not able to come to an agreeable definition of god (because there are a broad variety of definitions), it still does not change the nature of the question, which is, as MM points out, pretty much the same as asking why does anything exist. the answer will always be, "because it does".

asking about a thing's function or purpose is a somewhat different matter, and will naturally inspire responses such as rj's suggestion about man needing to establish a hierarchy of godship in order to feel better about his place in the universe. i would say that's one possible reason, but not the only one.

smiling facelib
MrMario
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#12 - Quote - Permalink
Posted 05/09/07 - 5:55 PM:

Thank you Libertygrl. That was the question I was getting at. What is "Gods" function or purpose.
Thank you.

Please, everyone, continue your replyssmiling face

P.S.- Im not saying that "He/She/It" does exist. I just whish to know what "Gods" purpose was, and why.
Monk2400
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Posted 05/09/07 - 6:08 PM:

Again, do YOU have a purpose? Does that tree ovr there?

If a divine being exists, ought it have a purpose?

If you are suggesting that God has a purpose, you liken God to an artifact, and artifacts are made by some being for some specific reason, to fulfill a need. So in asking aftr God's purpose for being, you are already weighing in on the question of whethr God is 'real' or an artifact of humanity's imagination. N'est pas?

8)
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Posted 05/09/07 - 6:19 PM:

we could rephrase mr. mario's question by asking, "what need does god fulfill?"

then the question of whether god actually exists is not necessarily relevant.
mixinman7
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Posted 05/09/07 - 8:06 PM:

The question is presumably answered by personal opinion no matter the case. So imo, God is Time. There is a thread on another forum discussing the theory of continuous time. IF all existence stopped, or, so to say, time stopped, could we possibly notice it? Zeno's paradox deals with the fragment of time perception.(he was from 100+years ago). for all we know, an eternity spans the length between each moment.

"What need does God fulfill?"

existence...
Brinni
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Posted 02/04/08 - 7:16 PM:

Well, I think God exists so we know whats good and not. To me, in essence, God is beauty and everything pure, and whether I call him God or just identify him by love, I think he exist so we know how to search for the truth in the world. God is just good to me, and whatever is good, we should look for and hold as a treasure. Good things help us get over our struggles, and keep us out of trouble.
The thing about God I find attractive is the fact his love is unconditional and it makes me feel whole just knowing that. Maybe feeling whole is the most attractive feature of him.
But, I think mixinman7 is right, it is answered by personal opinion....your perception of God depends a lot on it too.
Morgena
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Posted 02/05/08 - 1:21 PM:

For all those doubters of a higher nature or even god I would like them to turn the question around just asking themselves of what makes you so sure that god or good does not exist do you have any knowledge about the non existents of either good or god? wink
Monk2400
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Posted 02/05/08 - 9:03 PM:

sure. I know there is no 'good' because of the nature of value--what it means, how it works, and it role in the life of axiological agents.

as for God, I think it is possible that there is a Most High God, but I cant say Im absolutely certain. I havent discovrd the right argumnt yet...

nod
Morgena
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Posted 02/06/08 - 12:18 PM:

Okay, let us assume someone is doing you a fevered, of course, he is acting in your interest, and that can only be perceived as something good. Alternatively, take for example all those who do work in the interest of the poorer in your country, such like charity workers dealing with people sleeping rough, those workers are doing something altruistic or call in good. There is good in many ways, perhaps we do not always perceive it as such, if we are bidder at heart of something sadly happened to us. wink


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Posted 02/17/08 - 12:52 PM:

"There is good in many ways, perhaps we do not always perceive it as such, if we are bidder at heart of something sadly happened to us."

I agree with you Morgena. You have a great point, indeed!
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#21 - Quote - Permalink
Posted 02/17/08 - 2:58 PM:

Why does God exist?

Morgena wrote:
For all those doubters of a higher nature or even god I would like them to turn the question around just asking themselves of what makes you so sure that god or good does not exist do you have any knowledge about the non existents of either good or god? wink


So there can be good, of course.
MrMario
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Posted 02/17/08 - 4:12 PM:

But isn't Good or Bad relative?
libertygrl
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#23 - Quote - Permalink
Posted 02/17/08 - 4:27 PM:

Mario wrote:
But isn't Good or Bad relative?

they are. and there can't be one without the other.

MM wrote:
as for God, I think it is possible that there is a Most High God, but I cant say Im absolutely certain. I havent discovrd the right argumnt yet...

i don't believe it's something that can be rational. the last step is always a leap of faith smiling face
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Posted 02/17/08 - 5:07 PM:

libertygrl wrote:
[Good or Bad relative?] they are. and there can't be one without the other.

Ironically, it seems to me that those with the weakest faith require the strongest contrast.
Morgena
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Posted 02/18/08 - 5:22 AM:

There is something I would like to share with you be sure, whatever happens to you, the other part will share the same good or bad. For example, if there was someone in your life that caused a lot of pain on you, he/she will suffer as well, if you were a lucky person and some increased happiness on you, he/she will walk the same happy road.
Since I came to this knowledge, I stopped caring about my enemies, would rather feeling sorry for some. If there is someone who says, he has no faith in anything and anybody than turn the question around and ask him why should others believe in him or her? Perhaps this person is lonely at heart that is why he has no faith.wink

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