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Are Mind and Matter interdependent?

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waechter418
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Posted 10/11/16 - 4:44 PM:
Subject: Are Mind and Matter interdependent?
According to Taoist- Zen- Meta- & Quantum-physics, things become only defined when they are observed.
henry quirk
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Posted 10/12/16 - 2:40 PM:

Yeah, Heisenberg is wrong. The cat in box is dead or alive, one or the other, not both. What you and I don't know is which it is. But, our not knowing the cat's condition doesn't put it, the cat, in some kind of half-way, fuzzy, state.

Again, the cat is dead or alive, one or the other, not both.
waechter418
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Posted 10/15/16 - 10:40 AM:

henry quirk wrote:
Yeah, Heisenberg is wrong. The cat in box is dead or alive, one or the other, not both. What you and I don't know is which it is. But, our not knowing the cat's condition doesn't put it, the cat, in some kind of half-way, fuzzy, state.

Again, the cat is dead or alive, one or the other, not both.


Sorry Henry, the question is: are mind & matter interdependent?

By the way, i am still waiting for Buddhist, Taoist, Zen and Meta-physical interpretations.....(i hope latter are not taboo on philosophical forums)

henry quirk
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Posted 10/16/16 - 1:28 PM:

"Sorry Henry, the question is: are mind & matter interdependent?"

Try this, then...

No, they're not. Apparently 'mind' is dependent on matter cuz the only examples of 'mind' any of us can point to are associated inextricably with matter...that is, insofar as any of us know, there are no 'minds' flittin' about like will o' whisps; 'mind' always comes from, seems to be an on-going product of, matter and material processes.

Matter, on the other hand, has no obvious need of 'mind'...this ipad I'm pokin' on right now, the materials that comprise it are mindless and seem to continue on just fine without a 'mind'.

So, it's a one way street: mind needs matter; matter doesn't need mind.
thedoc
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Posted 10/16/16 - 2:39 PM:

As Henry says, the mind associated with a material body is the only one that can be observed and demonstrated. However in Zen Buddhism it is believed that the mind exists and the physical world, including the body, is a projection of that mind. The mind exists and the individual is just a part of that over all mind. Apparently those minds that are reunited with the one-mind and have separated from the physical world are not perceivable to those minds still attached to the physical world.

There is a story of a Monastery in Tibet where the monks believe that if they can write the 10.000 names of God (it might be 40,000, I don't remember for sure), the universe will end and will dissolve into nothing.

There was a Sci Fi story where an I.T. was called to a Monastery to program a computer to printout the names of God. As he was leaving he noticed the stars going out, apparently the computer had finished it's program.

The last verse of the David Gates song IF, is a reference to this as well.

If the world should stop revolving spinning slowly down to die,
I'd spend the end with you, and when the world was through,
Then one, by one, the stars would all go out
and you, and I, would simply fly away

source: www.lyricsondemand.com/d/da...dgateslyrics/iflyrics.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3Z6p31-2I0
waechter418
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Posted 10/17/16 - 5:08 PM:

Einstein showed us that matter is an emergent form of energy and energy itself is massless. Ergo: matter and mind (which is apparently an energy too) are interrelated. Attempts to separate them, cannot solidify matter, but can confuse/fragment mind.
thedoc
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Posted 10/18/16 - 10:46 AM:

Einstein's theories led to many developments, among them Quantum Theory, but Einstein didn't like the theory because He didn't believe in a God who would throw dice. There are other ideas that Einstein didn't like, the expanding Universe, Einstein wanted the Universe to stand still. Einstein got some things wrong and some things right, but when confronted with the evidence, he changed his ideas to conform with the evidence.
SUNLIGHT
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Posted 10/21/16 - 8:23 AM:

QUOTE : Sorry Henry, the question is: are mind & matter interdeppendat.

there are those who believe that matter is the lowest form of spirit and that mind is the connecting medium that links the two...soin thatsense they are dependent on each other ...spirit...mind...and body ....the body is dependant on the mind for direction and the mind is dependent on the spurit for inspiration ...of course it is possible for the spirit to exist without matter just as it is possible for GOD to exist without the universe of matter because he was there in the begining before he created matterial forms peace
waechter418
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Posted 10/21/16 - 7:44 PM:

henry quirk wrote:
the only examples of 'mind' any of us can point to are associated inextricably with matter


how about ART ...?
thedoc
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Posted 10/22/16 - 10:03 PM:

waechter418 wrote:


how about ART ...?


ART is an expression of the mind and is usually expressed in a material form. Can you tell us an art that is not expressed in some material form
henry quirk
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Posted 10/24/16 - 9:20 AM:

What Doc said.
waechter418
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Posted 10/31/16 - 6:06 PM:

Dear Henry,
is a "senior member" obliged to have the last word?
henry quirk
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Posted 11/01/16 - 11:49 AM:

Naw...you can have it.
thedoc
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Posted 11/01/16 - 3:38 PM:

waechter418 wrote:
Dear Henry,
is a "senior member" obliged to have the last word?


"If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen." It sounds a little like ButtHurt to me, but I could be wrong.
thedoc
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Posted 11/01/16 - 3:49 PM:

•waechter418, when you post on an internet forum, even one as quiet as this one, you will often be challenged to defend your statements. You can either present a better explanation to answer the challenge, change you position in light of contradictory evidence, or continue to defend your post in the face of contradictory evidence. The last course could relegate you to being ignored by everyone else if the contradictory evidence is sound.
waechter418
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Posted 11/01/16 - 5:23 PM:

You guys win this time blush
but i am already working on another subject for schoolyard brawlinglaughing
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