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something of a speech

Comments on something of a speech

IammyaspectofUs
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Posted 06/09/06 - 9:18 PM:
Subject: something of a speech
This was something I wrote on craigs list around april 06. I was getting tired real quick of the mean people and wrote this to them.
I just ran across it when I was cleaning up my files.
I'm looking for critiques. What would you call this a lecture? a speech?





Can the reader ponder an honest and respectful answer as to why someone would deserve degradation from any of us?

I would say that CL is a space that does not require personal responsibility and the deviant trespasses we impose on each other here are only one of the results of freewill. Another result is the life experience of deviant trespass that is gained by those participating freely in it giver, taker and or love maker. We are free here to be as loving or deviant from loving as we choose to be.

What is more real than communication between human souls? Some would answer with many corporeal truisms and that is typical of the over all human condition. Would we limit our exposure to them, thus limiting the realization of ourselves, by fighting and becoming like them? Or would we allow them to be how they will to be, allowing ourselves our own freedom in our act of tolerance.

These people will to not understand possibilities that other will to. Would you agree?

We can understand this because of our experience as perpetrators of the like. We can forgive.

All are invited to participate in CL and there is no escaping the possibility of meeting anyone in here. The realization of whom we are talking to is confined only to our own personal limitations imposed on us by who we are. Could you meet God?

Would your limitations allow you to realize whom your talking to? Not if you're fighting the Devil in someone. Visa versa too.

A great and masterful person said treat all human beings as you would treat me for at the end of time all will be revealed.

The unrealistic perfection many extrapolate from this communication is of their own manufacture and is not what the master meant. One may understand the condition and nature of themselves and fellow humans to embody the forgiveness needed to make the masters statement reasonable enough to realize it or to live it.

As with any worthy undertaking one must practice to realize ones potentials.

As sure as time is in motion we have already begun our lives and have everywhere to go.
Choose or your life will be chosen for you. More perfection? It's an illusion trust me.
libertygrl
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Posted 06/10/06 - 10:45 PM:

it does have a tone of lecturing to it, definitely rings of a soapbox speech. what is your overall intention with this? whom are you addressing, specifically?
IammyaspectofUs
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Posted 06/11/06 - 12:19 AM:

There was a group, a small cult of personality in the spirituality forum of Craig’s list.
Some of them like to bully people outside of the group.
Head games galore. I found myself trying to fit in for the want of participation and got tired of having to try so hard. So I wrote that. I am pretty new to writing so...

Think it was understandable?
libertygrl
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Posted 06/11/06 - 10:06 AM:

with your introductory sentence it seems as though you may be heading in the direction of a "make peace, not war" intent, but as you go further on you emphasize the value of free will, which a bully will just take as license to behave however he/she pleases.

now with your explanation i see more clearly that you're suggesting in the third paragraph ("What is more real..") that they're doing a disservice to themselves with their own snobbery. i would suggest just coming right out and saying that. it's been my experience with bullies that they have little motivation or skill when it comes to reading between the lines.

it seems you acknowledge that "corporeal truisms" are the grounds on which they dismiss you, so i would suggest taking a different approach if it's true communication with them that you're after. the emotional component which actually inspired the message seems to have been replaced by these truisms, so the intent no longer comes across, in my opinion. i would just come right out and say, "you're hurting other people, and yourselves, and it's not right". this is simple language a bully can understand. if the intended audience really cares about things like the golden rule, then this is something they will more likely hear and respond to. if they don't care about the golden rule, then it won't help to quote it to them.

you ask, "would we limit our exposure to them", when what you're really getting at is that they are the ones limiting their exposure to you, and folks like you. your use of pronouns here is confusing to me because you're addressing a group that is treating you like an outsider but then you phrase this question as if you're on the inside with them and other people are on the outside. it seems to suggest that you don't understand where you stand with them. i can understand the desire to establish some common ground but this tactic doesn't seem effective to me.

overall your message feels cerebralized to the point of being inaccessible. it's taken me a fair amount of effort to get to the bottom what you're trying to say here, and this much effort is generally not going to be invested by someone who has already demonstrated a lack of respect for you. you tell them to trust you, but trust must be earned.

heartlib
IammyaspectofUs
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Posted 06/11/06 - 12:19 PM:

Wow great stuff lib thanks. I think what I've learned with this piece and that you have validated for me is that I need to keep my communications short and sweet and succinct.
I don't have the experience to be wordy. I just get all confusing. I should have set this piece up with more circumstance to help you help me more. Another lessen in creating what I want. The length, structure, and usages do reflect my processes and circumstances at the time. I’ll try to set it up better.



I had a partial respectful attention of the "guru" person in the group who seemed to have a peaceful head except for the need to comfort her abusive friends as an enabler of their abuses. And the others had already shown that they would only give ridicule to simple straightforward communication no matter what sense it made. So I was using the little attention I had of the leader, along with respect for her goodness, against the cohesion of the group as a way of penetrating the group and dispelling its gang mentality type of power.
I guesse to present this thing properly I would have to really go into all the details to show why I wrote what I did. I was going after their ability to be reasonable through the weak part of their strong social structure. The leader was strong, sensible, and had a good heart, but had allowed the pains of each individual to overtake her as a leader. So she ended up just protecting everyone’s soft spots in a detriment to her own well-being, and fairness to anyone out side the group.
I believe it did change the game. I got an apology from the biggest bully and inclusion in the group. But I felt it was best to just leave them to heal. LOL
The group dynamic seemed to shrink into a more lovable group of friends rather than the hydra it was.



I realize that my writings take a lot of effort to read. I have my attention on that. I think I just need more experience and good critics like you to help me.

Thank you for the help I really appreciate it.
It’s hard to find good critiques because people are afraid of crossing lines that probably usually are there, but may not be in my case. I really am a beginning writer. I want and need to be corrected and shown where I am ineffective and the opposite.
thanks lib
hug

libertygrl
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Posted 06/11/06 - 12:51 PM:

no worries. just sharing my perspective on it.

of course, there's nothing wrong with complexity, and profundity. you mention that you got an apology so it sounds like your message got across just fine.

as a general rule, i think it's good to remind yourself, as you write, who your audience is and the gist of what you're trying to say. i think it's perfectly natural to write things down as they come to mind but it's also beneficial to apply some critical thinking afterward to re-organize the structure of your message for the sake of clarity. on the other hand, sometimes over-refinement will kill the tone of sincerity that comes across with spontaneous verse. as always, it really just depends on the context.

i'm taking some college writing classes right now which have helped me a lot. right now we're learning essay writing so there's a lot of focus on getting to the point and saying what you need to say concisely. creative writing is a different animal so naturally different principles would apply.

cheers,
lib
IammyaspectofUs
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Posted 06/11/06 - 2:18 PM:

Gosh I don't know how you do it. All the academic learning you just described yourself doing makes my head spin. LOL, I just don't have the capacity for it.

I met a person on CL that was very smart and studied in many things. I really looked up to her information and the way she delivered it. She was so reasonable to read that she seemed like a light in the night. You’re like that for me lib. She told me that she probably only posted about 10% of what she actually wrote. I think that is wise. But I still post everything LOL.
Some things I can implement right away some I can't. But I really appreciate your help.
e.
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Posted 06/12/06 - 11:47 AM:

Hi Iam,

I second Lib's response. I can see how you were feeling and that you were holding a lot in while you were writing. Sometimes we just have to call a spade a spade, I also think that irony is singularly useless when dealing with mind-bullies, as is reasoning and any kind of justification.

All you can do sometimes is tell them to get stuffed and find somewhere better.

I once walked out of a snobby, up your backside, poetry event and amazingly we just walked into another bar in the city and there was an open mic event going on there as well. It was down and dirty, but I got to read straight away and had a warm reception. Two city blocks made all the difference.

I would say - If you don't get a warm welcome at the start, then don't wait 10 years for it, cos it'll probably never happen. Some people just don't want us.

Cheers e.

PS - You're OK.thumb up
IammyaspectofUs
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Posted 06/12/06 - 5:00 PM:

Yeah looking back, I was attempting "the savior" as a way of carving out my niche there.
I was so new to the forum thing, and I only knew about Craig’s list so I just kept trying to fit in there. I really only found Craig’s list forums while looking for a car and sort of stumbled into the philo form.
After about a month of that crap I found this comfortable couch where people actually enjoy communication.
Yeah thank God I found this place! And from here I went to mpg. But honestly the couch is much more fun, challenging, and wealthier for me.
e.
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#10 - Quote - Permalink
Posted 06/13/06 - 3:09 AM:

Agreed.

By the way, this is an interesting point about finding places. It applies to friendship groups, jobs, home towns, restaurants, car repair places, educational establishments, any kind of club, ad listings etc etc etc etc.

If you are at the wrong one, people almost never tell you about other ones. Maybe this is a 'dog in the manger' thing or maybe it's because people think that their place must be the right one, I don't know. There is a strange fascination about these 'dry wells' and lots of people hang around them in an unhappy but expectant way. It's Kafkaesque.

I have seen this so many times and there is a big lesson here.

My daughter did something once that was life changing and I admired her so much for it. She was in primary school and had got into a bitchy/bully friendship group. She was unhappy and asked us about it. We were worried.

Then, with amazing courage, she just dropped them completely and went over to the 'nice' girls and befriended them. This was 15 years ago and her friends have become close, nurturing and lifelong, just as we would have wanted. We hear a little about the other girls, and it has been trouble all along with them. Sometimes you just have to make that choice, even if you are afraid, you have to make the move.

I've talked with you, Lib, about the difference between 'key point' changes in life and slower development. As you probably remember I think key points are maybe more important than slower development; they are points of opportunity which can be easily missed IMHO.

Cheers folks, e
smiling face

PS - Although, missing a couple of key points can be a big learning experience if we are able to take it on, so that would fit with the slow development theory. You still need opportunities though.

Edited by e. on 06/13/06 - 3:19 AM
IammyaspectofUs
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#11 - Quote - Permalink
Posted 06/13/06 - 1:45 PM:

Hey lib, e
key points, wow, you always seem to talk about the stuff of life.



In my private school, my life, I've been studying “key points” from a conscious perspective too. I’d love to talk about it when people can stand to here my ways. But you know where my perspectives of study lie and I understand if that’s undesirable.



In simplistic terms I see each person and or social dynamic as present time culminations of mental image pictures, and also the culminations of them at differing times referenced from the present when appropriate. There is a lot more of a person’s mechanism to see but the pictures are the real actionable stuff.

Since we all live on the same planet, there tend to be allot of similarities between them all, the pictures. Opposites are a type of similarity and often clash hard for that is their nature, but more importantly to this conversation are the subtle similarities. Like the1, 5, 10 20% range of information similarity in a conceptual picture.

20% is a big match relatively. Am I a relativist or what ever they call that?



When you experience anything, it is your life force vibrating a picture or more realistically, a set or pattern of pictures. When you see a person on the street you instantly vibrate the similarities and relate to that person. And that is how I see us playing out every social interaction, again in simplistic terms. These matches are how we find and experience our bonds with each other. They can be complex using billions of them at once like in politics or in philosophically interesting conversations, or more simple combinations are used depending on the circumstances.


When looking at what I call group agreements and social agreements. I look at the matches and the unique dynamics of each circumstance and of course how it all relates to each person. And finally I look for how and what I can learn from the process.

In looking at all of life that I can from this perspective, and not emphasizing good or bad I can begin to see the synergies that crescendo into what I think are the same points in life you call key points. Again my processes that I overly simplistically describe are just that and for that reason it may sound unrealistic or unreasonable. But it really is all I have when it come to a study process. LOL
Key points are so fun to look at! And they come in all shapes, sizes and colors. And to a human experience, they can good and or bad.

That old man slap story I posted in dust bunnies called “one of my true stories” was a huge key point in my life. It was part of the ending of a personal era for me.

Each opportunity in life really is a quality in a chain no doubt about that.



I remember a black man responding to the neoconservative line of people pulling them selves up by their bootstraps. He said: I’m all for that. But I’m from the south and it’s very hard to do when there is a boot on your neck.



That is an example of a generic socially perpetuated key point in, I’m sure, many lives.

I guesse in my view key points can be distinguished to the broadest or narrowest perspectives.

I’ve read about some of libs…

No pressure, I know its public forum and all,

But what’s a huge turning key point shaped you the person you are today if I may ask?
Is there a thread about this already? Should we make one for everyone?
libertygrl
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Posted 06/13/06 - 3:43 PM:

IammyaspectofUs wrote:
Like the1, 5, 10 20% range of information similarity in a conceptual picture.

20% is a big match relatively. Am I a relativist or what ever they call that?

can you give an example of a matching image? i think i have a pretty good idea of what you mean but some clarification would help. also, i'm not sure what you mean about the percentages.
IammyaspectofUs wrote:
But what’s a huge turning key point shaped you the person you are today if I may ask?
Is there a thread about this already? Should we make one for everyone?

there's no thread on this topic as of yet. if you'd like to start one in the thinking spot, iam, please feel free. sounds like good stuff.

thumb uplib
IammyaspectofUs
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#13 - Quote - Permalink
Posted 06/14/06 - 12:16 AM:

Can you give an example of a matching image?
Sure
Please try keeping in mind that everything that fits into this label psychic, in my mind, is just normal everyday, every person stuff. It’s linguistics, it’s physiology, it’s psychology, its physics, math, and it’s everything that is explained, but accompanied by the stuff that science and academia choose to call unexplainable for now anyway. A lot of physics people are theorizing on the interdimensional now though. We as academics are really breaking ground fast.
You've probably heard the term everything is energy.
Well it is.

Matching pictures are two or more, usually more, pictures that have similarities in any energetic way. The numbers really don’t matter except that the stronger the match the stronger the relative possibilities.
We all have them with each other, that’s why we experience life in similar ways.
The reason that we don't experience it exactly the same is because we are all individual being of unique energies and pictures.

You know how I related to that story you wrote about the dark man and the seduced girl? I could do that because you created the concepts of the story very closely to and from the concepts of your experiences and closely to mine also. We have slightly matching pictures. I guesse similar pics would be a better description of them. But when I am doing an actual reading of these, it helps me to think of them as a match or a direct point of relating.

The concept of mental image pictures, as I like to call them for the benefit of the academic community so their heads don't explode, is a very simple one.

But the vast use of them by existence can make the study of them overwhelming if you try to understand the whole scope intellectually, without first using you effortless abstract facilities.

Don’t analyze them, better to just visualize them.


Ah it just all in your imagination anyway!
libertygrl
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Posted 06/14/06 - 12:50 AM:

regarding using matching pictures for psychic readings - they teach the same concept at the berkeley psychic institute. i wasn't sure at first if you were talking about the same thing but that's definitely it; thanks for the clarification. it's pretty simple and sensible as far as i'm concerned. abstraction is not effortless for everyone, though. effortless abstraction is what differentiates a psychic from a linear thinker.
IammyaspectofUs
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Posted 06/14/06 - 10:50 AM:

but you must admit that on some levels we all think either way. am I wrong?
yeah bpi, about ten years here.
libertygrl
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Posted 06/14/06 - 11:15 AM:

i definitely agree that everyone has the capacity for abstraction. using the ability doesn't come naturally to everyone, though.
IammyaspectofUs
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#17 - Quote - Permalink
Posted 06/15/06 - 1:55 PM:

It's just symantics. but I don't agree with that state ment.
everyone uses abstact thought naturaly in everyday life. we are just trained to ignor it.
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