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Is time travel suicide?

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libertygrl
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Posted 10/02/12 - 4:17 PM:
Subject: Is time travel suicide?
Do you think time travel will ever be invented?

If so, would you be willing to try it out, not knowing what the potential consequences of your actions might be?
Thinker13
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Posted 10/02/12 - 8:34 PM:

My two cents: I know that ultimate goal is bliss(Ananda), joy and happiness; I have already seen many lives from many angles and altering bits and pieces of my life history is not going to change much. There are only two roads to traverse as there are only three elements--Maya, God and Jeev. I am a Jeev(Soul), so I can see only two signboards---one points towards God and the other points towards Maya---I would choose to travel on the road towards God, because experience, elders, tradition and my intuition--all point towards that road as the road to a happiness which 'once attained will always be there.' As for small chunks of pleasure and pain, I have tried and tasted many, in this and in previous life-times; therefore time-travel is not worth trying if you are striving to remember God incessantly in my opinion. smiling face
henry quirk
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Posted 10/03/12 - 8:50 AM:

Will time travel ever 'be'?

Probably not...reality doesn't seem to allow for it.

But: if I could bounce 'round in time and I went back to off my parents before my birth, I don't think it would make a bit of difference to me...I would still exist, my memories would be intact.

Offing them would change the world, but not 'me'.

I would become a recursive paradox but only to an observer, not to myself.
libertygrl
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Posted 10/03/12 - 11:42 AM:

Interesting responses, always a pleasure, gentlemen. (And no, I'm not being facetious.)

Thinker, what if becomes apparent that time travel is by necessity on the path toward God? Or is that not likely, in your view?

In Looper, changes made from time traveling into the past affect the present, for example one guy sees the fingers of his hand disappearing one by one as his past self is tortured by some thugs. In 'Back to the Future' Marty McFly finds his own existence threatened as the reality of his parents never falling in love looms ominously (again, he sees his hand disappearing before his very eyes - an interesting metaphor, now that I think of it.)

This is what inspired me to ask if time travel is suicide - because no matter what we change in the past, our present self as we know it is bound to disappear, right? Unless there is some way to preserve the present self in its own self-encapsulated reality somehow. And perhaps it would be necessary to do so in order for time travel to take place.
henry quirk
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Posted 10/03/12 - 1:37 PM:

Assuming time travel was possible: I think even if 'I' went back and cut the fingers off my 'younger self', I, the time traveler, would still have my digits.

I think -- again -- I would become a paradox (but only to observers, not to myself).

The universe would shift (in gross or subtle ways) as response to my meddling, but my own personal, subjective, line would remain unaltered.

Because I dis-embed myself from linear time, I also preserve myself from the changes I cause 'outside' of me.

There: I've rewritten handwavium physics...where's my friggin' Nobel Prize?
libertygrl
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Posted 10/03/12 - 1:40 PM:

Haha, kudos indeed
henry quirk
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Posted 10/03/12 - 1:53 PM:

wink
thedoc
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Posted 10/03/12 - 5:36 PM:

I hope you don't mind if I drag this out of the past,

Objective Time ?
Aug 1, 2008 3:22:11 AM

Much of what poeple know or believe about time is due to the language used to refer to time. For this discussion I will dwell in the realm of Philosophical objectivism and not subjectivism (solipsism). The reference is often to the passage of time as it "Flows past us". Science referes to time as the 4th dimension 'Duration' which implys that like the other three we can move along the dimension of time. There is much fictional speculation about adventurers traveling to distant places and times, and I do enjoy 'Dr. Who' and his TARDIS, but it is fiction. Poets write of traveling along the road of life as if all the events of our past & future are there, where we have been, and will be. As I said we exist in the current instant along with the rest of the universe and will exist in the next along with everything else. The progression of events is just that one instant after another, we are here now, we remember events that seem to streach out in our past, and anticipate events that may happen in the future, but our only reality is the present. All speculation about time travel is nonsense, the future has not happened and the past is gone, there is no-when to go to. I do not say we should forget the past as events may repete. I do not say that we should not plan for the future as we can make better choices based on our memories of the past. The flow of time is an illusion as there is nothing that is flowing past that exists before or after the present. With our clocks and calanders we can record and corrolate events that have happened, but clocks and calanders do not control that one moment follows another and will continue whether we notice or not. That time seems to pass slowly or quickly is a psychological illusion dependent on our attention to the sequence of events. The clock ticks off regularly and steadily regardless of our awareness, and each tick is a reality in itself and the only one that existed then. We continue to exist now in this instant and the next, and the next minuet, hour, day, year, but time is a concept that has no reality, It is only an illusion created by our clocks and calanders with their records of events. Time is the name we have given to the sequence of existance, but must not be construed as something that flows or passes but is only the record of the moments of our existence.

by thedoc

libertygrl
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Posted 10/03/12 - 6:00 PM:

But... what if time travel were merely a means for exploring God's memories? Would it be plausible then? Or desirable?
thedoc
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Posted 10/03/12 - 9:36 PM:

There is one type of time travel that is possible, or more correctly 'past time viewing'. We all travel into the future,and if you want to jump, say 8 hours into the future, just go to sleep and when you wake up it will be 8 hours later and it will seem like you traveled into the future. Viewing the past is possible with only a few small technical problems to work out. First you will need to be able to travel FTL, and say you want to view an event 10 years ago. you just travel 10 light years away from the Earth, having first worked out the correct position in space to be able to see the event. Then you will need a telescope large enough to capture the light from that event that has been traveling through space all that time. It will be picture only as sound doesn't travel very well through the vacuum of space. So there it is, just work out those minor technical issues and you can look at any event in history, except for the ones on cloudy days. But the further back in time you go the larger the telescope you will need to resolve an image.
Thinker13
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Posted 10/03/12 - 9:39 PM:

lib wrote:
Thinker, what if becomes apparent that time travel is by necessity on the path toward God? Or is that not likely, in your view?


Various movies, theories and other fiction do suggest what Henry is suggesting--parallel universes---your line would remain intact and you would see someone else.

As for soul, there are just two other elements--God and Maya.

Traveling in time is mostly an activity influenced by Maya.

In fact Vedas say that 'time' is a means to delude and is borne out of Maya(i will quote exact verses from Bhagwata Purana if you ask...).

Thinking in terms of time always gives more thoughts, anxiety and tension.

You might have heard about Jesus saying that there is no time in his abode. Similarly, there is no time in Goloka, Vaikuntha and Saket loka.

You can be permanently happy only when you are free from time and from Maya(time is but only 'one' tool of Maya.)

After some speculation you can see that time is mind(thoughts).

SUNLIGHT
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Posted 10/04/12 - 6:56 AM:

libertygrl wrote:
Do you think time travel will ever be invented?

If so, would you be willing to try it out, not knowing what the potential consequences of your actions might be?



if its possible then it remains to be discovered rather than invented smiling face
thedoc
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Posted 10/05/12 - 6:35 PM:

Time travel, if possible, would need to be discovered, the means to do it, would need to be invented.
henry quirk
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Posted 10/08/12 - 9:08 AM:

"parallel universes"

Actually, I mean no such thing.

Example: Henry Quirk time travels back to when his ma and pa were kids...Quirk beats ma to death and strangles pa...neither can grow up, marry, make Quirk.

As a result the universe changes.

Now: from Henry's perspective, the universe changes, but, being 'outside' those changes (the benefit of being a time traveler), he's aware the universe has changed...he, himself, recollects his own history as intact even though said history no longer properly exists.

From the universe's perspective (more accurately, from the perspective of a non-time traveler) Quirk pops into existence like a virtual particle. From the universe's perspective, Quirk is brand-spanking new with no cause (no origin).

In effect: Quirk is a new aggregate of matter that didn't exist, shouldn't exist, can't exist, but does exist.

No need to appeal to the logic of the multiple-reality or -universe...just handwave enough and *TA-DA!* everything falls into line as one neat package.

As to the how of time travel: you need a neutronium cylinder about 'this' long, spinning on the long axis at next to light speed...hop in yer car or truck or other vehicle and drive 'around the cylinder from one end to the other...presto-chango: you'll be in the same 'where' but at a different 'when'.

It's all very simple and doable... wink
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Posted 10/10/12 - 5:52 AM:

peaceQUOTE HENRY QUIRCK :
Example: Henry Quirk time travels back to when his ma and pa were kids...Quirk beats ma to death and strangles pa...neither can grow up, marry, make Quirk.

.............................................
A neat trick henry smiling face but if there were noma and pa then there would be no henry quirck to travelback in time , ha ha ha , peace
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Posted 10/10/12 - 5:53 AM:

SUNLIGHT wrote:
peaceQUOTE HENRY QUIRCK :
Example: Henry Quirk time travels back to when his ma and pa were kids...Quirk beats ma to death and strangles pa...neither can grow up, marry, make Quirk.

.............................................
A neat trick henry smiling face but if there were no ma and pa then there would be no henry quirck to travelback in time , ha ha ha , peace

henry quirk
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Posted 10/10/12 - 9:28 AM:

"...but if there were noma and pa then there would be no henry quirck..."

rolling eyes
thedoc
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Posted 10/10/12 - 3:51 PM:

Then 'Who' killed Ma and Pa? Henry already existed otherwise there is an endless regression of causality. With that kind of infinite feedback loop the whole universe would grind to a halt. Henry's going to spoil it for everyone.
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Posted 10/11/12 - 5:46 AM:

thedoc wrote:
Then 'Who' killed Ma and Pa? Henry already existed otherwise there is an endless regression of causality. With that kind of infinite feedback loop the whole universe would grind to a halt. Henry's going to spoil it for everyone.


............................
well doc anybody with intelligece can see that if maa and paa were killed as childrenthen then there was no henry so he could not have gone back in time to kill them because henty did not exist.. i cant make it any more simpler doc , even for you ..cheers grin
thedoc
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Posted 10/11/12 - 8:16 AM:

But if Henry didn't exist, then he couldn't have killed his mother and father. But if his mother and father were not killed then there was a Henry. This in an unending loop, withour any answer because it goes on into infinity. However Henry's version works better because Henry already existed and therefore cannot 'not exist'. just because he went back it time to kill them.
henry quirk
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Posted 10/11/12 - 8:44 AM:

A relevant repost...pay attention, Brian.

---

Henry Quirk time travels back to when his ma and pa were kids...Quirk beats ma to death and strangles pa...neither can grow up, marry, make Quirk.

As a result the universe changes.

Now: from Henry's perspective, the universe changes, but, being 'outside' those changes (the benefit of being a time traveler), he's aware the universe has changed...he, himself, recollects his own history as intact even though said history no longer properly exists.

From the universe's perspective (more accurately, from the perspective of a non-time traveler) Quirk pops into existence like a virtual particle. From the universe's perspective, Quirk is brand-spanking new with no cause (no origin).

In effect: Quirk is a new aggregate of matter that didn't exist, shouldn't exist, can't exist, but does exist.

---

There is no paradox to circumvent: from Henry's perspective, things are as they ever were, and, from the universe's perspective, Henry pops into existence as a virtual (super) particle.

As such, the semantic hooey -- "if maa and paa were killed as children then then there was no henry so he could not have gone back in time to kill them because henty did not exist" -- isn't relevant in my scheme.
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Posted 10/11/12 - 4:55 PM:

QUOTE HENRY QUIRCK :Henry Quirk time travels back
..................................................

If he does not exist how can he travel back rolling eyessmiling face
thedoc
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Posted 10/11/12 - 6:16 PM:

SUNLIGHT wrote:
QUOTE HENRY QUIRCK :Henry Quirk time travels back
..................................................

If he does not exist how can he travel back


If Henry does not exist, then who killed his parents? Sorry if this is just too much for you to comprehend.

You seem to be caught in an infinite logic loop, let us know when you spin out, we'll wait till you're not so dizzy.
henry quirk
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Posted 10/12/12 - 9:05 AM:

"If he does not exist how can he travel back"

*sigh*

Quirk goes back in time, butchers his parents as each lays sleeping in his and her cradle. Quirk continues to exist even though he has altered reality to prevent his birth.

"But, but, but, that doesn't make sense!"


Depends entirely on your perspective, Brian.

From Quirk's perspective: while the universe changes in response to his meddling, 'he' stays the same. Dis-embedding himself from linear time, in effect, insulates him, isolates him, from the effects of his meddling on the greater universe.

From the universe's perspective: Quirk simply pops into existence as a (super) virtual particle in much the same way virtual particles pop into existence during high-energy particle interactions.

Now: let's make it more interesting...Quirk goes back to the day of his own birth and, instead of butchering ma and pa, strangles 'himself' as he lay in the hospital nursery.

What is the effect of 'this' meddling?

The same, of course, as when Quirk killed his parents.

No matter how Quirk obliterates his own objective history/timeline, 'he' remains, same as he ever was.

Time travel, then, is not the way to commit suicide.


I'm bettin' you still don't get it, Brian.
thedoc
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Posted 10/12/12 - 12:24 PM:

henry quirk wrote:

I'm bettin' you still don't get it, Brian.



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