The Couch

Scientists Proclaim Animal and Human Consciousness

Comments on Scientists Proclaim Animal and Human Consciousness

cripes
Senior Member

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Oct 22, 2009
Location: the SE portion of a state in the NE part of the US

Total Topics: 18
Total Comments: 157
cripes
Posted 09/02/12 - 9:53 AM:
Subject: Scientists Proclaim Animal and Human Consciousness
A remarkable thing happened at The First Annual Francis Crick Memorial Conference held at the University of Cambridge, July 7 in U.K. A group of prominent neuroscientists signed a proclamation declaring human and animal consciousness alike. Called The Cambridge Declaration of Consciousness, it states:

[indent]We declare the following: The absence of a neocortex does not appear to preclude an organism from experiencing affective states. Convergent evidence indicates that non-human animals have the neuroanatomical, neurochemical, and neurophysiological substrates of conscious states along with the capacity to exhibit intentional behaviors. Consequently, the weight of evidence indicates that humans are not unique in possessing the neurological substrates that generate consciousness. Nonhuman animals, including all mammals and birds, and many other creatures, including octopuses, also possess these neurological substrates.[/indent]


Read more: www.care2.com/causes/scient...he-same.html#ixzz25K8YTFTc
Thinker13
Senior Member
Avatar

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Apr 27, 2009

Total Topics: 357
Total Comments: 3379
Posted 09/02/12 - 11:45 AM:

One step closer to wisdom. All Jeevas(Souls) have consciousness. According to Vedas, there are just three(and only three) elements since time immemorial and there will always be only three: Krishna(God), Jeevas(Souls) and Maya(matter: illusory potency of God).

Since souls and God have existed since beginning(there has been no beginning in fact)--God is not senior to souls. In that regard soul and God are similar.

But they differ in degree of consciousness. God has infinite consciousness, because he resides in the hearts of every soul of every universe and there are infinite universes. He not only registers the Karma of each and every soul but also gives results and travels into every birth(materialization) with every soul.

Souls have tiny consciousness. Most evolved life-forms in terms of consciousness; humans---cannot clearly remember what they had for dinner last Thursday--leave alone retaining memory of various past lives.

Consciousness is awareness of 'I' but since every thought proceeds from 'I', it's nothing but memory.

More a soul remembers God more conscious it becomes and more the consciousness lesser the problems. Problems get solved by increased awareness. Humans have created more problems than they have solved because they have forgotten the super-conscious God.

God is all knowing and all powerful and souls have almost no power at all and know nothing--but the ahamkara(ego) which is a tool of Maya(inert illusory potency of God) makes souls deluded by the belief that they know everything, which in turn makes them rude and closed-boxes. In such a state only destruction follows.
henry quirk
Senior Member
Avatar

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Apr 17, 2008
Location: here

Total Topics: 47
Total Comments: 1298
Posted 09/04/12 - 9:02 AM:

*All I want to know: can I still eat meat, or, is that now 'forbidden'?









*like I really give a shit. If Bessie doesn't want me eating her, she can (1) offer a persuasive argument against my eating her, or, (2) she can self-defend.

If she fails in either, then she will be in my belly.
thedoc
Senior Member
Avatar

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Sep 15, 2011

Total Topics: 41
Total Comments: 982
Avatar thedoc
Posted 09/04/12 - 9:23 AM:

I believe this has all been decided and argued in very simple terms. It all comes down to 'Good Taste', Just as Charlie was always trying to demonstrate his 'Good Taste' to the Starkissed people, so it is with plants and animals. Plants have clearly indicated by their 'Good Taste' that they want to be eaten. Likewise animals that do not want to be eaten will not have 'Good Taste' and those with 'Good Taste' have indicated their desire to be eatification to others.
cripes
Senior Member

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Oct 22, 2009
Location: the SE portion of a state in the NE part of the US

Total Topics: 18
Total Comments: 157
cripes
Posted 09/04/12 - 11:44 AM:

Those are two interesting responses. Where in the article is there any mention of food? This is about brain formation and awareness. laughing
thedoc
Senior Member
Avatar

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Sep 15, 2011

Total Topics: 41
Total Comments: 982
Avatar thedoc
Posted 09/04/12 - 12:11 PM:

The article didn't mention food but conscious awareness is one of the arguments against eating meat. It is something like plants aren't aware so it's OK to eat them because there is no suffering, but animals are aware and to kill them and eat them causes suffering. That human and animal are now believed to be the same or similar, will give more weight to the argument against, and might strengthen the claim of canabilism in eating meat. The one point that is often overlooked is that canabilism is illegal and considered immoral in this country (US) but I do not know of valid reasons why it is wrong.
cripes
Senior Member

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Oct 22, 2009
Location: the SE portion of a state in the NE part of the US

Total Topics: 18
Total Comments: 157
cripes
Posted 09/04/12 - 12:33 PM:

That's a different thread. Why don't you start one?
henry quirk
Senior Member
Avatar

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Apr 17, 2008
Location: here

Total Topics: 47
Total Comments: 1298
Posted 09/04/12 - 1:37 PM:

My point was/is: I don't care if Bessie is self-aware...I'm gonna eat her up anyway.

Edited by henry quirk on 09/04/12 - 1:43 PM. Reason: just a little fiddlin'
thedoc
Senior Member
Avatar

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Sep 15, 2011

Total Topics: 41
Total Comments: 982
Avatar thedoc
Posted 09/04/12 - 2:26 PM:

Different thread? No need, I've said what I wanted, and I believe Henry has as well.

As far as brain formation, the bigger the better, there are lots of recipes to try out.
henry quirk
Senior Member
Avatar

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Apr 17, 2008
Location: here

Total Topics: 47
Total Comments: 1298
#10 - Quote - Permalink
Posted 09/04/12 - 4:29 PM:

HA!

Cripes, to be more specific: it's irrelevant to me if the consensus has humans and, say, dogs having the same kind of 'awareness' (of world, of self)...just 'cause Fido (or Janice, the coffee girl) can argue against my eating him (or her) doesn't mean -- given the proper circumstances -- that I won't try to eat him (or her).

The label 'human' means as little to me as 'cow' or 'dog' or 'penguin'. The elements or qualities that comprise ‘human’ (and how those qualities or elements may exist among non-human animals) are irrelevant.

Consciousness (of world, of self) is a great mystery...I'm not convinced Science will ever unlock it...whether it does or not: food is food, meat is meat, and a guy’s got to eat... wink
thedoc
Senior Member
Avatar

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Sep 15, 2011

Total Topics: 41
Total Comments: 982
Avatar thedoc
#11 - Quote - Permalink
Posted 09/04/12 - 7:55 PM:

So was that an expression of approval for Canabilism?
cripes
Senior Member

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Oct 22, 2009
Location: the SE portion of a state in the NE part of the US

Total Topics: 18
Total Comments: 157
cripes
#12 - Quote - Permalink
Posted 09/04/12 - 10:47 PM:

thedoc wrote:
As far as brain formation, the bigger the better, there are lots of recipes to try out.
I dunno, perhaps you've got your organs confused. Brain function requires precise firing, AFAICT.
cripes
Senior Member

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Oct 22, 2009
Location: the SE portion of a state in the NE part of the US

Total Topics: 18
Total Comments: 157
cripes
#13 - Quote - Permalink
Posted 09/04/12 - 10:50 PM:

henry quirk wrote:
My point was/is: I don't care if Bessie is self-aware...I'm gonna eat her up anyway.
Rumour has it Mick Jagger isn't picky about who eats him. Just sayin!

BTW, love the "just a little fiddlin'" reason.


Edited by cripes on 09/04/12 - 11:09 PM
thedoc
Senior Member
Avatar

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Sep 15, 2011

Total Topics: 41
Total Comments: 982
Avatar thedoc
#14 - Quote - Permalink
Posted 09/05/12 - 12:22 AM:

Cripes, Henry, I'm getting a bit confused, are we talking about Canabilism, where you sit down and consume another persons flesh, or are we talking about 'Oral Sex', - where you sit around and talk about it?

Bessie? - I don't remember dating a girl named Bessie?
henry quirk
Senior Member
Avatar

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Apr 17, 2008
Location: here

Total Topics: 47
Total Comments: 1298
#15 - Quote - Permalink
Posted 09/05/12 - 9:11 AM:

"So was that an expression of approval for Canabilism?"

Given the proper context: sure!
thedoc
Senior Member
Avatar

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Sep 15, 2011

Total Topics: 41
Total Comments: 982
Avatar thedoc
#16 - Quote - Permalink
Posted 09/05/12 - 9:46 AM:

Interesting that there have been many cultures over the centuries that have practiced cannibalism for different reasons. One example that I think could be considered acceptable is the practice of consuming parts of a deceased member of the group or family as a way of honoring the dead. The brain and heart would be included as those participating would want to absorb some of the good qualities of the departed loved one.

This would be in stark contrast where it is practiced to terrorize and intimidate the 'others' and to dehumanise them in the view of this group.
henry quirk
Senior Member
Avatar

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Apr 17, 2008
Location: here

Total Topics: 47
Total Comments: 1298
#17 - Quote - Permalink
Posted 09/05/12 - 9:55 AM:

I would eat Janice the coffee girl for the same reason I would eat Bessie the cow: I'm hungry and she's what's on the menu.
thedoc
Senior Member
Avatar

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Sep 15, 2011

Total Topics: 41
Total Comments: 982
Avatar thedoc
#18 - Quote - Permalink
Posted 09/05/12 - 10:25 AM:

So in your eyes all flesh is just flesh, whether it is human, other animal, or plant, all equal in your sight as far as food.
henry quirk
Senior Member
Avatar

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Apr 17, 2008
Location: here

Total Topics: 47
Total Comments: 1298
#19 - Quote - Permalink
Posted 09/05/12 - 12:57 PM:

Yes.

The default position for any life is: resource for other life.

The human rises in value (as something other than resource) by virtue of what he or she does that makes him or her valuable (which can be as simple and direct as simply fending off cannibal Quirk).
libertygrl
Administrator
Avatar

Usergroup: Administrators
Joined: Apr 16, 2005
Location: San Francisco

Total Topics: 425
Total Comments: 4672
#20 - Quote - Permalink
Posted 09/11/12 - 12:28 PM:


I think with enough diligent research, common ground could be found between humans and just about any life form, from the amoeba on up to the macrocosm.

cripes wrote:
Where in the article is there any mention of food?

It says in the article, "Starting with animal rights through to veganism, changing the minds of those who believe humans are “top dog” will be a challenge." I'd say Henry's comments are relevant. The question raised, I think, is whether animals should have greater rights as a result of being recognized as "not inferior".
henry quirk
Senior Member
Avatar

Usergroup: Members
Joined: Apr 17, 2008
Location: here

Total Topics: 47
Total Comments: 1298
#21 - Quote - Permalink
Posted 09/12/12 - 8:41 AM:

"(should) animals...have greater rights as a result of being recognized as "not inferior"."

Oh, I'm guessin' somewhere along the line, some busy body will succeed in getting voting rights established for platypuses and whatnot.

Not about 'should' but 'can'.

And still: I will eat Perry the platypus if the proper circumstance arise.

Even if he is the duly sworn-in President of these here United States.
Search thread for
Download thread as
  • 0/5
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5



Sorry, you don't have permission . Log in, or register if you haven't yet.



Acknowledgements:

Couch logo design by Midnight_Monk. The photo hanging above the couch was taken by Paul.

Powered by WSN Forum. Free smileys here.
Special thanks to Maria Cristina, Jesse , Echolist Directory, The Star Online,
Hosting Free Webs, and dmoz.org for referring visitors to this site!

Copyright notice:

Except where noted otherwise, copyright belongs to respective authors
for artwork, photography and text posted in this forum.