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THE FIRST HUMAN PAIR

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SUNLIGHT
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Posted 07/04/12 - 9:12 AM:
Subject: THE FIRST HUMAN PAIR
BIBLE chronology aided by archeoloical finds like steles , clay tablets and other records enable us to date the first humans created in GODS image to approx 4,000 bc ...as to thye bones that were found in africa and dated to before 4,000 bc may i ssay that dating processes can be innacurate and unreliable ....thers something for one to argue with :-)..
libertygrl
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Posted 07/04/12 - 11:16 AM:

i've moved this to the dust bunnies forum since this is more of a statement than a question. the thinking spot is intended for topics that pose a question of some sort. cheers *peace*
Thinker13
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Posted 07/04/12 - 11:58 AM:

Sunlight, I have heard preachers in India suggest that Vedas were in circulation for thousands of years and then finally when 'shruti' era was over, they were written down. Scientific consensus is on 5000 BC but there is no clear cut consensus. Indian advocates of Vedas say that since all researches have been by "western" experts, they have been biased.

Now, there might actually be 'inaccuracy' in research about Bible or Vedas, we don't really have any reliable and independent sources. Do we?

Neither we could start researching on our own. Could we?

thedoc
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Posted 07/06/12 - 8:35 PM:

Adam and Eve in the Garden is Mythology and relates the development of Humans from animal awareness to self aware beings. The fruit of the tree is symbolic of man becoming aware of his own mortality as is indicates by human burials that included articles that the survivors believed the dead person might need in the journey to the next life. This goes much further back than 6,000 years, in fact there are burials of Neanderthals that indicate the belief that there is more to humans than the imediate physical existance. Human history extends back to its beginings in Africa but when Mythology and religion originated is still a question.
SUNLIGHT
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Posted 07/08/12 - 9:46 PM:

QUOTE THE DOC :but when Mythology and religion originated is still a question.
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Manmade religions originated with the old serpent who deceives the whole world ...TRUE religion originated with GOD and JESUS .
SUNLIGHT
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Posted 07/08/12 - 9:52 PM:

quote thinker13:we don't really have any reliable and independent sources. Do we?
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the BIBLE is a releable source of history and chronology taking us back to around 4,000 bc and the creation of the first human created in GODS image we are not talking about those beings that might have existed before adam , the neanderthals and like were certainly not created in GODS image
thedoc
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Posted 07/08/12 - 10:40 PM:

Most of the actual documents on which the Bible is based were created about 2,000 years ago and are claimed to be copies of earlier documents, but there is no way to know for sure. There are many inscriptions in stone from earlier periods about other civilizations, but none concerning the Jewish history. The Bible tells us that God created Humans, but does not tell us, in detail, how God did it. That seems to have been left to those with a vivid imagination, and a propensity for BS.
thedoc
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Posted 07/08/12 - 10:43 PM:

Modern Humans (Cro-Magnons) appeared about 43,000 years ago, so the bible is Mythology relating this development of human culture and Mythology.
SUNLIGHT
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Posted 07/09/12 - 7:48 AM:

QUOTE THE DOC Modern Humans (Cro-Magnons) appeared about 43,000 years agO

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There is no way that you can accuratly date that , wheras , ADAM the first human created in the image of GOD can be dated to around 4,000 bc using biblical chronology with the help of steles and cuneiform tablets as for the term MODERN humans , there were none of the nations 43,000 years ago that we have now ..the nations that we have now can be dated to around 2,500 bc and the 3 main racial groups we have now all descended from NOAHS 3 sons , i,e ...SHEM -HAM and JAPETH out of which came the hamitic,japhtic and semitic groups that we have today , none of these groups existed before 2,500bc smiling face.
Thinker13
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Posted 07/09/12 - 1:47 PM:

SUNLIGHT wrote:
thinker13: wrote:
we don't really have any reliable and independent sources. Do we?

..................................
the BIBLE is a releable source of history and chronology taking us back to around 4,000 bc and the creation of the first human created in GODS image we are not talking about those beings that might have existed before adam , the neanderthals and like were certainly not created in GODS image



Bible is not independent source if a non-Christian is speaking to you. Bible is not reliable because it's not independent.

Why neanderthals and like were not created in the image of God? Were they created in the image of Devil then? laughing
thedoc
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Posted 07/09/12 - 9:18 PM:

Thinker13 wrote:

..................................
Why neanderthals and like were not created in the image of God? Were they created in the image of Devil then? laughing


There is no 'Image' of God in any meaningfull sense, God is a spiritual being who can manafest a physical image if needed. The Image of an old man with a white beard sitting on a throne in the clouds is best left in the youngest sunday school class, but has no place in any serious discussion. That God created man in his own image is in the sense of man being aware of his place in the universe. When Man developed conscious awareness man became aware of God and that man was a part of the God spirit. This concept is expressed in other religions but in different terms. The error of the Judeo/Christian tradition is to seperate man from God, when, in fact, God is here on Earth with us and has no desire to be seperated from us, to seperate man from god is an invention of man. The fall of the garden expresses this concept and is the only tradition that does so along with Islam.
thedoc
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Posted 07/09/12 - 9:26 PM:

Humans were in existance about 200,000 years ago and continued to evolve till we have modern humans. God had a lot of time to slowly bring man to an awareness of God's existance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human
Thinker13
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Posted 07/10/12 - 2:08 AM:

thedoc wrote:
There is no 'Image' of God in any meaningfull sense, God is a spiritual being who can manafest a physical image if needed. The Image of an old man with a white beard sitting on a throne in the clouds is best left in the youngest sunday school class, but has no place in any serious discussion. That God created man in his own image is in the sense of man being aware of his place in the universe. When Man developed conscious awareness man became aware of God and that man was a part of the God spirit. This concept is expressed in other religions but in different terms. The error of the Judeo/Christian tradition is to seperate man from God, when, in fact, God is here on Earth with us and has no desire to be seperated from us, to seperate man from god is an invention of man. The fall of the garden expresses this concept and is the only tradition that does so along with Islam.


Vedanta says that 'we' are spiritual beings, the ultimate Bramh if we could realize it, we can also manifest anything whatsoever and entire universe is nothing else but our(my) manifestation. It's pretty strikingly coming from a person who has studied Christianity.
thedoc
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Posted 07/10/12 - 8:38 AM:

Thinker13 wrote:


Vedanta says that 'we' are spiritual beings, the ultimate Bramh if we could realize it, we can also manifest anything whatsoever and entire universe is nothing else but our(my) manifestation. It's pretty strikingly coming from a person who has studied Christianity.



Christianity stated that we are spiritual beings but most Christians and Christian Preachers do not understand or stress this aspect of the Bibles teaching. Too many Christians are stuck in the 'Sunday School' version of Christianity with its literal reading and do not grasp that the Bible os largely Mythology, and most of that borrowed from prior traditions. Part of this comes from the origin of the Judeo/Christian God coming from a Hunting/Herding society rather than farming. Hunting/Herding societies tended to have a God who was 'out there' and the environment was considered as hostile, thus 'the fall' and a corupt 'nature'. Farming societies tended to adopt a 'Mother Earth' Goddess who was here amoung us and nature was not hostile but nurturing. My own concepts tend to go back even further to a God/Goddess who 'is' Nature and the Universe, not a seperate being who created the world and steps back to watch.
Thinker13
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Posted 07/10/12 - 9:53 AM:

thedoc wrote:



Christianity stated that we are spiritual beings but most Christians and Christian Preachers do not understand or stress this aspect of the Bibles teaching. Too many Christians are stuck in the 'Sunday School' version of Christianity with its literal reading and do not grasp that the Bible os largely Mythology, and most of that borrowed from prior traditions. Part of this comes from the origin of the Judeo/Christian God coming from a Hunting/Herding society rather than farming. Hunting/Herding societies tended to have a God who was 'out there' and the environment was considered as hostile, thus 'the fall' and a corupt 'nature'. Farming societies tended to adopt a 'Mother Earth' Goddess who was here amoung us and nature was not hostile but nurturing. My own concepts tend to go back even further to a God/Goddess who 'is' Nature and the Universe, not a seperate being who created the world and steps back to watch.



That's really interesting. In the beginning, to me you came across as a strictly religious person who doesn't quite take interest in other teachings--but then first impressions need not last.nod
thedoc
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Posted 07/10/12 - 11:12 AM:

I grew up a Lutheran and still attend a Lutheran church, but many years ago I started working out in Karate and started reading about Buddhism. Several years ago I worked in a machine shop and another employee was a Muslem and we had a lot of interesting conversations compairing religious ideas. More recently I have been reading Joseph Campbell's writings about Mythology. All this has shaped my concepts and belief, I would like to explor Hinduism more but time is limited for now.

Can you give links to the Vedas on line in english, as I do not know, nor do I have time to learn the original language. I have watched a movie version of The Mahabarata on TV and had a recording of it, that was very interesting, and quite long. There is a lot of mythology in movie form which makes it a bit easier to see, provided the production was accurate.
SUNLIGHT
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Posted 07/10/12 - 1:50 PM:

Thinker13 wrote:

..................................
the BIBLE is a releable source of history and chronology taking us back to around 4,000 bc and the creation of the first human created in GODS image we are not talking about those beings that might have existed before adam , the neanderthals and like were certainly not created in GODS image



Bible is not independent source if a non-Christian is speaking to you. Bible is not reliable because it's not independent.

Why neanderthals and like were not created in the image of God? Were they created in the image of Devil then? laughing
[/quote]

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so are you sayink that GOD looks like a neaaderthai then...rolling eyeslaughing
thedoc
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Posted 07/10/12 - 4:40 PM:

I would think that God, being God, could look like anything or anyone God wanted to, or are you presuming to limit God.
Thinker13
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Posted 07/11/12 - 3:48 AM:

thedoc wrote:
I would think that God, being God, could look like anything or anyone God wanted to, or are you presuming to limit God.



I agree with thedoc. In Hinduism, there are various mythologies pointing to this suggestion. Supreme personality of Godhead looks like us humans because it's suggested that we're best of the forms, but then there are various avatars decended in form of tortoise, fish and so on--which is a suggestion that God could appear in any form whatsoever.smiling face
SUNLIGHT
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Posted 07/11/12 - 7:26 AM:

Thinker13 wrote:



I agree with thedoc. In Hinduism, there are various mythologies pointing to this suggestion. Supreme personality of Godhead looks like us humans because it's suggested that we're best of the forms, but then there are various avatars decended in form of tortoise, fish and so on--which is a suggestion that God could appear in any form whatsoever.smiling face


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well as moderator of a hindhu site i have faced this question dozens of times but i myself PERSONALLY dont place any faith in a religion that worships hundreds of household gods and does not aknowledge that there is only ONE GOD .we will have to agree to disagree here smiling face
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ISAIAH 45:5-6 (New International Version) - Bible Gateway


I am the LORD, and there is no other; apart from me there is no God.




.

KinNaoko90
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Posted 07/11/12 - 7:42 AM:

SUNLIGHT wrote:

.............................................................
well as moderator of a hindhu site i have faced this question dozens of times but i myself PERSONALLY dont place any faith in a religion that worships hundreds of household gods and does not aknowledge that there is only ONE GOD .we will have to agree to disagree here smiling face
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ISAIAH 45:5-6 (New International Version) - Bible Gateway
I am the LORD, and there is no other; apart from me there is no God.


I don't think Thinker was asking a question (correct me if I'm wrong, Thinker)... at least not in the post you quoted.

The thing is Sun, from your posts you appear to be Christian. This doesn't mean you are right in acknowledging only one God. Then again, I will be the first to admit that I have no idea as to what right and wrong are. I will also be the first to admit that I believe others only assume they know what right and wrong are.

To me, Hinduism is just as likely to be accurate as Christianity is. No book can tell me otherwise because no thing in existence can (or at least has been able to) prove anything to me. I trust in no thing. I have faith in no thing. That's just my belief. That's just how I am.

-Kin heart
thedoc
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Posted 07/11/12 - 9:11 AM:

KinNaoko90 wrote:


To me, Hinduism is just as likely to be accurate as Christianity is. No book can tell me otherwise because no thing in existence can (or at least has been able to) prove anything to me. I trust in no thing. I have faith in no thing. That's just my belief. That's just how I am.

-Kin heart



I believe I responded to this on another thread.
Thinker13
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Posted 07/12/12 - 4:05 AM:

Sunlight wrote:
well as moderator of a hindhu site i have faced this question dozens of times but i myself PERSONALLY dont place any faith in a religion that worships hundreds of household gods and does not aknowledge that there is only ONE GOD .we will have to agree to disagree here smiling face


It's good that you're a moderator to that site. You don't have a faith in a religion and have your reasons for doing so. It's perfect.


Please Note: There is a slight misunderstanding in your statement. Hinduism does acknowledge only One God. What extra it does is, that supreme God can manifest in any form whatsoever. Now if people start worshiping the God who is hidden in those forms, or start worshiping themselves because God is inside them as well---I don't think that they are offering worship to 'forms.' They're worshiping that which is inside and beyond form.

Do ask me if any part is confusing.

It's one thing to practice a religion and another to have a clear understanding of it.

Ramakrishna Paramhansa practiced all the religions and found all Gods and his accounts tell that they were all authentic.

I don't dismiss his accounts. Neither I approve them. And it doesn't matter either.

A thinker said once "There are two ways to get Truth/Reality: One is--you accept everything as Truth, another is, you reject everything altogether--both will give you Truth."


Of course: All written above, including my opinions on Hinduism are just that: opinions. They are not Truth or Reality with a upper case R. laughing
SUNLIGHT
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Posted 07/12/12 - 7:21 AM:

QUOTE THINKER13:A thinker said once "There are two ways to get Truth/Reality: One is--you accept everything as Truth, another is, you reject everything altogether--both will give you Truth

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Well if you reject all that JESUS preached and taught then there is no way you can get to truth , because his word is TRUTH smiling face
Thinker13
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Posted 07/12/12 - 9:07 AM:

SUNLIGHT wrote:
QUOTE THINKER13:A thinker said once "There are two ways to get Truth/Reality: One is--you accept everything as Truth, another is, you reject everything altogether--both will give you Truth

...................................
Well if you reject all that JESUS preached and taught then there is no way you can get to truth , because his word is TRUTH smiling face



As said earlier: The difference between my opinions and yours is--I don't claim that they're Truth. If you already know that Truth, then all you have to do is to preach it. There is nothing to accept from anyone else. But then, it might be because you are bathing in bliss, in eternal joy which is conferred by the Truth and out of lively compassion you're helping us all learn Truth. smiling face
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