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Human Activity Related to Catastrophes?

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Thinker13
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Posted 04/22/12 - 4:46 AM:
Subject: Human Activity Related to Catastrophes?
Thinker13 in Web-Bot Project wrote:

Web-Bot Wikipedia wrote:

Ure and High hypothesize that changes in language precede changes in behavior. This is the basis for attempting to use ALTA as a form of future viewing. The authors have repeatedly asserted in interviews that the predictions made in the ALTA report have an inherent bias toward events of a negative nature and tend to be framed in catastrophic terms. However, the reports have also indicated positive events such as the development of new technology and increased social awareness.




It's beyond my understanding how change in language over the web could predict natural catastrophes, even if you could prove that change in language is associated with change in behavior, because there is no proof that human behaviour affects nature to bring natural catastrophes.


Today, I came across a news article related to seismology experiment which points towards a possibility of correlation between oil-drills and seismic waves in America. This article gives me second thoughts and now I think that there might be a relation between human behaviour and natural catastrophes.

The entire article:

America's oil and natural gas boom has led to a "remarkable" rise in earthquakes in the middle of the country, the US Geological Survey said on Wednesday. But scientists said the man-made quakes were not directly caused by hydraulic fracturing, or fracking, which involves pumping chemicals and water deep into underground rock formations.

"We don't find any evidence that fracking is related to any of these magnitude 3 earthquakes that we have been studying," Bill Ellsworth, the USGS seismologist leading the study of man-made quakes, told a conference call with reporters. "We simply don't see any evidence that fracking is related to earthquakes that are of concern to people."

However, he said there were a few instances when waste water wells, in which chemicals used in fracking are injected deep underground, had triggered seismic activity.

Ellsworth set off a man-made quake of his own a few days ago in a report on NPR about his forthcoming study, to be presented at the annual meeting of seismologists in San Diego on Wednesday evening.

The study found a sixfold increase in man-made quakes in an area including Arkansas, Colorado, Oklahoma, New Mexico, and Texas against the 20th century average, the increase taking place over a 10-year period starting in 2001. The quakes were small, a magnitude just over 3.0, but there were even more of them after 2009, which corresponded with a sharp rise in natural gas drilling around the country.

"A remarkable increase in the rate of (magnitude 3) and greater earthquakes is currently in progress," Ellsworth and his colleagues wrote in a summary of the study.

"While the seismicity rate changes described here are almost certainly manmade, it remains to be determined how they are related to either changes in extraction methodologies or the rate of oil and gas production," the abstract said.

The next three years saw a far greater increase in such events. The time period corresponds to a boom in natural gas production, made possible by the use of hydraulic fracturing. There were 50 earthquakes in 2009, 87 in 2010 and 134 last year.

The USGS dispatched scientists to look for links between the quakes and drilling activity after a swarm of earthquakes in 2009.

Steve Horton of the University of Memphis Center for Earthquake Research and Information, who was on Wednesday's call, said it was difficult to prove a connection between those waste wells and earthquakes.

Scientists were only able to establish a clear link between a waste water well in Arkansas because the quake was actually triggered by its construction.

"It is very difficult to prove that earthquake are related to fluid injection or triggered by it. In the case of Arkansas, the injection started and then very soon after the earthquake started. After the injection stopped the earthquake stopped, so there is a strong association," he said.

In other cases, there were seismic changes only several years after the wells were injected.

Waste water wells have been in use for decades as a disposal method. Ellsworth noted there were more than 140,000 around the country, and very few had triggered earthquakes. "It's only a small fraction of wells that can be problematic," he said.

My question is: Do you feel that natural catastrophes are related to human exploitation of nature?
smokinpristiformis
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Posted 04/25/12 - 8:42 AM:

I think that there might be a relation between human behaviour and natural catastrophes.


1. global warming due to disturbed CO2 balance - consequences are drought, floods, sea level rising
2. venice slowly sinking due to draining of groundwater supplies
30000000......

It's not strange that we have an impact on our environment. We need to control it and steer it. We get into the field of environmental engineering here. Which, incidentely, is sort of my field. wink
Thinker13
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Posted 04/25/12 - 8:46 AM:

smokinpristiformis wrote:


1. global warming due to disturbed CO2 balance - consequences are drought, floods, sea level rising
2. venice slowly sinking due to draining of groundwater supplies
30000000......

It's not strange that we have an impact on our environment. We need to control it and steer it. We get into the field of environmental engineering here. Which, incidentely, is sort of my field. wink



It's so pleasant to just hear sound of your voice Willem. I agree that I had overlooked Global Warming thing. smiling face
libertygrl
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Posted 04/26/12 - 11:22 PM:

I definitely believe that human behavior has an impact on the environment, creating earthquakes and climate change with the consequences of our technology.

Of course, you can also take this question in other directions... there are some who believe that natural disasters are karmic consequences of human behavior. For example, Hurricane Katrina being a form of punishment for corruption in that area. It may be completely far-fetched but I do wonder if karma does affect certain vibrations and movements of energy in a physical sense. If on a quantum level we do create manifestations in our environment on the basis of our expectations, then perhaps intense collective feelings of guilt could have some kind of impact. Food for thought.
Thinker13
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Posted 04/27/12 - 1:34 AM:

libertygrl wrote:
I definitely believe that human behavior has an impact on the environment, creating earthquakes and climate change with the consequences of our technology.

Of course, you can also take this question in other directions... there are some who believe that natural disasters are karmic consequences of human behavior. For example, Hurricane Katrina being a form of punishment for corruption in that area. It may be completely far-fetched but I do wonder if karma does affect certain vibrations and movements of energy in a physical sense. If on a quantum level we do create manifestations in our environment on the basis of our expectations, then perhaps intense collective feelings of guilt could have some kind of impact. Food for thought.



We have been thinking on the same page in this regard. I was going to ask this question--lets not take this too seriously, but just as a thought experiment:

Japan has has an unusually high share of catastrophes, natural as well as man made; be it Hiroshima and Nagasaki or perennial earthquakes. If it has Karmic reasons--it must mean that people living in Japan have a lot of negative expectations or as you suggest, 'guilt.'

This is surprisingly correlated to the vocabulary of Thanatose in Japanese culture, as I brought into your attention via a thread long time ago. Suicide, ghost stories and like are such an important part of Japanese culture that you might have to research to find equally intense thanatose in other cultures. I don't say that it proves the whole point but it should be taken into the consideration.

The next question is: Why Japanese culture has guilt or Karma more than others? Can we look into the history of Japan to find it out?

Related to it: Do you think that some places might have high karmic share irrespective of human activity there? I mean to say: Is it possible that some places are already having very high Karma or guilt without having seen any human activity ever?

libertygrl
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Posted 04/27/12 - 9:49 AM:

Hiroshima and Nagasaki were not natural disasters, they were attacks from the U.S., so if one is to question the degree of karma involved there, one must first examine the motivations of the U.S. and question the rightness of their own willful behavior. Likewise with Japan's attacks on the U.S. during WW2.

But whether karma is involved in naturally-occurring disaster is another matter, wouldn't you say? I don't think Japan's rate of catastrophe is any more than other densely populated countries, is it? The U.S. has destructive earthquakes, tornadoes and hurricanes every year. Indonesia has its own share of massive earthquakes and tsunamis regularly.

Did some googling and came up with this list of the most destructive earthquakes ever:

earthquake.usgs.gov/earthqu...world/most_destructive.php

Food for thought.
Thinker13
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Posted 04/27/12 - 10:21 AM:

libertygrl wrote:
Hiroshima and Nagasaki were not natural disasters, they were attacks from the U.S., so if one is to question the degree of karma involved there, one must first examine the motivations of the U.S. and question the rightness of their own willful behavior. Likewise with Japan's attacks on the U.S. during WW2.

But whether karma is involved in naturally-occurring disaster is another matter, wouldn't you say? I don't think Japan's rate of catastrophe is any more than other densely populated countries, is it? The U.S. has destructive earthquakes, tornadoes and hurricanes every year. Indonesia has its own share of massive earthquakes and tsunamis regularly.

Did some googling and came up with this list of the most destructive earthquakes ever:

earthquake.usgs.gov/earthqu...world/most_destructive.php

Food for thought.


Thanks for this information lib. The question below also helps in thinking on it:

http://earthquake.usgs.gov/learn/faq/?categoryID=11&faqID=139]Which country is most prone to the earthquakes?

This means that we might take up China or Iran instead of Japan for our discussion and continue to take into the account the 'damage' factor. But I think to further refine our analysis we should take into the account all of the natural calamities and not just the earthquakes.
Thinker13
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Posted 04/27/12 - 11:00 AM:

Thinker13 in the opening post wrote:
The next three years saw a far greater increase in such events. The time period corresponds to a boom in natural gas production, made possible by the use of hydraulic fracturing. There were 50 earthquakes in 2009, 87 in 2010 and 134 last year.


While looking for the frequency of earthquakes I read on the same site:

Website wrote:

We continue to be asked by many people throughout the world if earthquakes are on the increase. Although it may seem that we are having more earthquakes, earthquakes of magnitude 7.0 or greater have remained fairly constant.

A partial explanation may lie in the fact that in the last twenty years, we have definitely had an increase in the number of earthquakes we have been able to locate each year. This is because of the tremendous increase in the number of seismograph stations in the world and the many improvements in global communications. In 1931, there were about 350 stations operating in the world; today, there are more than 8,000 stations and the data now comes in rapidly from these stations by electronic mail, internet and satellite. This increase in the number of stations and the more timely receipt of data has allowed us and other seismological centers to locate earthquakes more rapidly and to locate many small earthquakes which were undetected in earlier years. The NEIC now locates about 20,000 earthquakes each year or approximately 50 per day. Also, because of the improvements in communications and the increased interest in the environment and natural disasters, the public now learns about more earthquakes.

According to long-term records (since about 1900), we expect about 17 major earthquakes (7.0 - 7.9) and one great earthquake (8.0 or above) in any given year.



Idea is to keep an open mind. smiling face

But a question which is not yet answered is: Is the rate of increase in the frequency of earthquakes in the years reported( 2009, 2010, 2011) constant and similar to the rate between other years? I think a quick look on statistics on the same website says that there has not been an unusual variation.

Edited by Thinker13 on 04/27/12 - 11:23 AM
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