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The guilt or innocence of Troy Davis

Thoughts on Troy Davis' execution?
Troy Davis was innocent.
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Troy Davis was guilty.
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The courts, not the press, most likely know best whether he was guilty.
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Even if he was guilty, the death penalty is still wrong.
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Even if he was innocent, the death penalty is still worthwhile.
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Other thoughts?
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Comments on The guilt or innocence of Troy Davis

libertygrl
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Posted 09/22/11 - 11:34 AM:
Subject: The guilt or innocence of Troy Davis
his last words:

"I'd like to address the MacPhail family. Let you know, despite the situation you are in, I'm not the one who personally killed your son, your father, your brother. I am innocent.

The incident that happened that night is not my fault. I did not have a gun. All I can ask ... is that you look deeper into this case so that you really can finally see the truth.

I ask my family and friends to continue to fight this fight.

For those about to take my life, God have mercy on your souls. And may God bless your souls."

from this wording it sounds like he didn't pull the trigger, but was probably there with the person who did, or at least knows who did it.

for those not in the know, this is someone who ardently defended his innocence up until the state of georgia executed him yesterday for murdering an off-duty cop in 1989. it was appealed all the way to the supreme court.

u.s. deputy attorney general larry thompson was quoted as having said, "There are legal standards and the (Savannah) judge who is a very good lawyer applied the legal standards and concluded that he couldn't change the sentence". this last quote is not very convincing of moral certainty. it reeks of using the system as an excuse to not do what's right.

has justice been served? would love to know your thoughts.

Edited by libertygrl on 09/22/11 - 12:21 PM
libertygrl
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Posted 09/22/11 - 12:46 PM:

a friend of mine who is an attorney pointed out that if troy was a co-conspirator, that he can be found guilty even if he didn't pull the trigger. the idea being that if four people get together and conspire to commit a crime, and someone dies, then all four people are liable for that person's death. it is currently a point of controversy. what do you guys think? troy davis' case aside, is it a fair way to handle sentencing a crime?
libertygrl
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Posted 09/22/11 - 3:27 PM:

he added that this would include a case where, say, you and your buddies go to rob a bank, your buddy pulls a gun, a police officer shoots and kills him -- he says in california, at least, you can be convicted of murder. not only that, but in a premeditated murder case involving co-conspirators, the actual gunman could take a plea deal and get life in prison while a co-conspirator gets the death penalty.

Edited by libertygrl on 09/22/11 - 6:29 PM
Thinker13
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Posted 09/23/11 - 1:58 AM:

Recently, In Bangalore, India, a guy was arrested by police because his girlfriend committed suicide, just after he broke up with her via a Facebook message. Now, I feel that boy should not have been arrested.

If I was in a relation with anyone, be it a friend or girlfriend and by turn of fate he or she commits suicide, I should not be culpable IMO.

More than that, just because someone would commit suicide if I move out of relation, I cannot be in a relation; however, I should do an effort to make this 'moving out' as mild as possible.
Thinker13
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Posted 09/23/11 - 2:08 AM:

libertygrl wrote:
a friend of mine who is an attorney pointed out that if troy was a co-conspirator, that he can be found guilty even if he didn't pull the trigger. the idea being that if four people get together and conspire to commit a crime, and someone dies, then all four people are liable for that person's death. it is currently a point of controversy. what do you guys think? troy davis' case aside, is it a fair way to handle sentencing a crime?

he added that this would include a case where, say, you and your buddies go to rob a bank, your buddy pulls a gun, a police officer shoots and kills him -- he says in california, at least, you can be convicted of murder. not only that, but in a premeditated murder case involving co-conspirators, the actual gunman could take a plea deal and get life in prison while a co-conspirator gets the death penalty.



It's plain ridiculous if I am understanding what you're saying. If I am found guilty of robbing a bank, I should be charged for that only and not for the deaths in the encounter until I kill someone. If police kills my buddies, police is inefficient and I should not get a death penalty for that.
libertygrl
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Posted 09/23/11 - 9:49 AM:

Thinker wrote:
It's plain ridiculous if I am understanding what you're saying.

your understanding of it is correct, that is currently the way the law is set up in california. and, to my knowledge, georgia too, where davis was executed.

Recently, In Bangalore, India, a guy was arrested by police because his girlfriend committed suicide, just after he broke up with her via a Facebook message. Now, I feel that boy should not have been arrested.

without knowing all the details, i would say that the boyfriend should not be held culpable for his girlfriend's mental illness, if that is the cause of her suicide. now, i might feel differently if he had locked her up in the house and was torturing her, then she committed suicide. but it doesn't sound like that was the case.

what do you think about this case, thinker:

articles.cnn.com/2010-03-29...chool-assembly?_s=PM:CRIME
Thinker13
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Posted 09/23/11 - 10:17 AM:

libertygrl wrote:

your understanding of it is correct, that is currently the way the law is set up in california. and, to my knowledge, georgia too, where davis was executed.


without knowing all the details, i would say that the boyfriend should not be held culpable for his girlfriend's mental illness, if that is the cause of her suicide. now, i might feel differently if he had locked her up in the house and was torturing her, then she committed suicide. but it doesn't sound like that was the case.

what do you think about this case, thinker:

articles.cnn.com/2010-03-29...chool-assembly?_s=PM:CRIME



The girl in the Bangalore case was a well to do and highly educated alumnus of IIM Bangalore and IIT and she was not tortured at all.

In the bullying case though, it seems that convicted girls and boys were guilty of forcing the girl to commit suicide.
libertygrl
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Posted 09/23/11 - 10:55 AM:

another scenario for you to consider:

a man lives in an apartment building secured by an electronic security system. his financial competitor decides to hire a three-person team to murder this man. the first person on the team is an electrical engineer who goes into the building to disable the security system. the second person breaks into the man's apartment and shoots him, killing him. the third person is waiting outside with the getaway car running, so that all three may escape after the deed is done. how should culpability be handled from a sentencing point of view? are all four men equally culpable? is the man who organized the murder the most culpable, or the man who pulled the trigger?
Thinker13
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Posted 09/26/11 - 11:48 AM:

libertygrl wrote:
another scenario for you to consider:

a man lives in an apartment building secured by an electronic security system. his financial competitor decides to hire a three-person team to murder this man. the first person on the team is an electrical engineer who goes into the building to disable the security system. the second person breaks into the man's apartment and shoots him, killing him. the third person is waiting outside with the getaway car running, so that all three may escape after the deed is done. how should culpability be handled from a sentencing point of view? are all four men equally culpable? is the man who organized the murder the most culpable, or the man who pulled the trigger?


This is a very intriguing question!

In my opinion, in any case the man who organized it is the one who is most guilty.

If the engineer and driver were well aware of the fact that they were serving the murdering cause, they too are culpable of murder to a great extent.

The shooter indeed is guilty.

In a scenario where engineer and driver are not aware of the cause they are offering their services for; they are guilty to a lesser extent( of not being enough aware of the type of causes they were serving for) but not of murder in my opinion.
thedoc
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Posted 09/26/11 - 4:40 PM:

I believe that US law reads that if a death occurs during the commission of a felony, then that death is murder and those commiting the felony are guilty of murder, but I may be wrong.
libertygrl
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Posted 09/29/11 - 12:18 PM:

thedoc wrote:
I believe that US law reads that if a death occurs during the commission of a felony, then that death is murder and those commiting the felony are guilty of murder, but I may be wrong.

yes, that is exactly how it works here in california, as confirmed by my friend who is an attorney.
libertygrl
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Posted 09/29/11 - 12:20 PM:

Thinker wrote:
In my opinion, in any case the man who organized it is the one who is most guilty.

i've been asking this question of just about everyone i know. i would say about 60% of the people i have asked agree with you. the other 40% feel that the guilt is shared equally among the four. interestingly no one feels that the person who pulled the trigger has the most guilt.
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