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Out with the old

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libertygrl
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Posted 06/14/11 - 7:45 PM:
Subject: Out with the old
Came across this question on one of my favorite Youtube channels. What is one thing in our society you think no longer has a place? Needs to be done away with make way for the new.
libertygrl
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Posted 06/16/11 - 2:20 PM:

i would say homophobia
henry quirk
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Posted 06/16/11 - 4:43 PM:

Been thinking on the question...having a hard time coming up with an answer.

The problem, for me, I think: the 'threads' of the 'culture' are so intertwined, so incestuous, I have difficulty teasing out and isolating one thread from the rest.

It's all crap anyway, so, how should I decide which particular piece of it should go?

I'm at a loss... whatever
smokinpristiformis
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Posted 06/21/11 - 3:18 PM:

ah ah... short-sightedness is my number one without question. =)
cripes
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cripes
Posted 06/24/11 - 2:30 AM:

Our narrative.
Thinker13
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Posted 06/24/11 - 10:11 AM:

Nothing. My opinion has no bearing on the universes of others ( or I think so...). My universe is perfect the way it is ( or I suppose so..)...My complaining or imagining might change my universe temporarily but to no end, for, things come back to the source...therefore...there is nothing I could come up with in response to this question!
libertygrl
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Posted 06/24/11 - 1:17 PM:

quirk wrote:
It's all crap anyway, so, how should I decide which particular piece of it should go?

hug your answer would be "all" then maybe? or "society"?

smoki wrote:
ah ah... short-sightedness is my number one without question. =)

nice thumb up

Thinker wrote:
My universe is perfect the way it is ( or I suppose so..)

nice thumb up

cripes wrote:
Our narrative.

which one, dear?
henry quirk
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Posted 06/24/11 - 5:20 PM:

"your answer would be "all" then maybe? or "society"?"

'All': perhaps the best thing to do is burn it all down and start over...or burn it down and NOT start over...*shrug*
libertygrl
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Posted 06/25/11 - 1:20 AM:

so sad sad
Thinker13
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Posted 06/25/11 - 9:04 AM:

libertygrl wrote:
so sad sad


Why? disapproval
libertygrl
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Posted 06/25/11 - 9:54 AM:

i think a lot of beautiful things would be lost if we burned it all down
Thinker13
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Posted 06/25/11 - 12:31 PM:

libertygrl wrote:
i think a lot of beautiful things would be lost if we burned it all down


Indeed. Now a question arises: Suppose we do so: Who is going to burn it down? Who is authorized? Then, if we suppose that there is someone; is he/she not the society( personified)as he/she is one of the outcomes of society?

When I look into myself, no matter how much I gainsay it; I find 'society' in my genes, in my memes, and in my thoughts. Defining society is a difficult thing methinks and it is very much a dynamic thing!

Even if you're an outlier; you're very much a product of society.
henry quirk
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Posted 06/27/11 - 5:23 PM:

"i think a lot of beautiful things would be lost if we burned it all down"

Even the most beautiful is finite.

Nothing (and no one) endures forever.

#

"Who is going to burn it down?"

I volunteer.

#

"Who is authorized?"

I duly authorize myself.

#

"you're very much a product of society."

Pffftt!

No, 'you' are an animal in contest with the world ('society', or, more accurately, the folks who comprise any particular 'society' fall under the umbrella of 'world').

If you live long enough, you learn...the learning tweaks (learning a language, discerning mores and genres of behavior, successfully avoiding sleeping in fire, etc.) you, but it doesn't 'produce' you.

Burning it all down doesn't leave the 'products' milling about, but -- instead -- leaves individuals free to 'do it again' or not.

If civilization is simply the on-going product of at least two agreeing to not steal, not physically hurt, not kill one another (so that both can go off and do something, anything, other than live in self-defense) then 'society/community' is one of the more repugnant results of folks 'doing something else'.

Certainly: folks can be domesticated, can be made to believe each only exists insofar as each is 'productive' in 'society'. This 'we, the people' rot is promoted by those incapable of surviving without assistance, and, those who aspire to belong to the politburo.

But, make no mistake: it is rot, it is not necessary, and it is produced by folks, not the other way around.
libertygrl
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Posted 06/30/11 - 11:02 AM:

quirk wrote:
Even the most beautiful is finite.

Nothing (and no one) endures forever.

true, it doesn't mean we must be eager to get rid of it. your nephew won't be around forever either, are you quick to burn him down? why not enjoy what you can while it's around?
henry quirk
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Posted 06/30/11 - 12:41 PM:

"are you quick to burn him down?"

I love him in all his rambunctious glory...I have no such affection for 'society'.
henry quirk
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Posted 06/30/11 - 3:14 PM:

"i think a lot of beautiful things would be lost if we burned it all down"

Lib, if you would: name a few of those things...I suspect the truly beautiful (at least as I estimate such things) are society-independent.
libertygrl
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Posted 06/30/11 - 4:53 PM:

quirk wrote:
Lib, if you would: name a few of those things...I suspect the truly beautiful (at least as I estimate such things) are society-independent.

i think there are a lot of beautiful things independent of society - trees, mountains, oceans, clouds, to name a few. but society has many beautiful things too, IMO. art, to me, would be a really important example, in all its forms, whether it is a painting, a sculpture, book, a film, poetry, and so on. music would be another, in its vast variety of forms. then you have the interactions which relationships produce, also in many beautiful forms: intimacy, for one example. heroism, for another.

but it seems we have differing ideas of what "society" means. we've touched on it before, but to recap... to me, society represents the interaction between two or more people. what does society mean to you? (the question is for everyone)
henry quirk
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Posted 06/30/11 - 5:08 PM:

Society: a great lumbering brute of a fiction each one is told serve...those who stand to profit trot the brute out and declare it superior to the individual and -- because of that superiority -- would see each one ground beneath the brute's swollen feet.

I say: cut the fucker into pieces, stuff garlic in its mouth, and bury it out in the woods.

This, 'the interaction between two or more people', is the foundation for what I call 'civilization'.

Civilization’s fruits include the things you list above.
libertygrl
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Posted 06/30/11 - 5:12 PM:

aha, interesting distinction. good to know how you slice it thumb up

so, when you say "burn it all down", that means society only, as per your definition, and not civilization?
henry quirk
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Posted 06/30/11 - 5:45 PM:

As I define it: civilization is the on-going, organic, dynamic, largely ill-defined (fluid) result of two or more agreeing to NOT steal from each other, to NOT rape/physically hurt each other, and to NOT kill each other, so that each can do something (anything) other than self-defend, 24/7.

As long as all parties abide by the foundational contract to NOT, everyone can do whatever the hell each likes...some will align with others, some will not; some will build towers to heaven and some will dig graves (for themselves)...as long as the 3 NOTs are un-violated, it's all hunky-dory.

And: when (any of) the 3 NOTs are broken, there's hell to pay...all bets are off.

No one pays homage to civilization 'cause civilization is what each does on his or her own (or in voluntary association with others).

Society, by its definition, demands observance and submission (burn it down!).
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