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The power of belief

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libertygrl
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Posted 05/11/11 - 11:52 AM:
Subject: The power of belief
This is a spin-off of Nihil's quantum activism topic - curious to know up to what point you think our beliefs can cure us of what ails us? Any thoughts?
Thinker13
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Posted 05/11/11 - 3:08 PM:

Just to begin with, even most minute ailments and suffering ( if you consider, ailments are sufferings manifested in the body because it was not dealt with in advance at the higher plane!) seem to be present because of negative beliefs. The core belief that suffering is necessary and inevitable for 'me' and for 'others' seems to be root cause of all evil.

Without meaning any offense: In some of the religions, including Christianity, it seems to be a given that there is no liberation; you are very likely to slip down from heavens into the hellfire and the Karma ( The original sin ) is already with you and you were born with it and you are always a sinner; since beginning and you have to be guilty of your sins---in a way, forming a core belief that you are not free but rather burdened already!
libertygrl
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Posted 05/11/11 - 3:21 PM:

It's true, Christianity teaches that you are born a sinner and that you will spend your entire life as one until you "pay your wages" in death.

(Question for everyone) To what extent would you say belief can cure you of physical illnesses, for example cancer or AIDS?
henry quirk
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Posted 05/11/11 - 3:50 PM:

"ailments"

My pop had a heart event a few years back because of a build up of 'plaque' on the artery walls...this was the result of little exercise and poor diet laid atop a particular genetic foundation...no amount of 'belief' (after the fact) would change that he needed a stint installed.

Perhaps making the choice to exercise more and eat better might have helped (before the fact) but those choices aren't about 'belief'.

#

"can (belief) cure you of physical illnesses, for example cancer or AIDS?"

No. Believing the tumor is shrinking, the virus is abating (and expecting 'belief' alone will make these things true), is absurd.

Surgery, chemo-, and irradiative-therapies in the first; a battery of medicines in the second, will save you (maybe).

'Belief' may help things along, of course...I think it was Norman Cousins who advocated for positive thinking and humor in his own battle against cancer...his view: optimism can aid in recovery...also: Victor Frankl advocated for a kind of existential optimism in the face of miserable circumstance.

Both men proposed one can 'get through' better if one 'wants' to get through, if one has a 'reason' to get through, if one 'believes' one 'can' get through...but neither man proposed that simply 'believing' was sufficient to 'get through'.

Cousins -- along with marathon viewings of Marx Bros. movies -- still went through conventional medical therapies. Frankl -- along with finding reasons to live another day in the concentration camps -- still ate food and still attended to his physical and medical needs by way of what meager physical resources were allowed or available.

Edited by henry quirk on 05/11/11 - 3:55 PM. Reason: expansion
libertygrl
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Posted 05/11/11 - 4:08 PM:

quirk wrote:
Both men proposed one can 'get through' better if one 'wants' to get through, if one has a 'reason' to get through, if one 'believes' one 'can' get through...but neither man proposed that simply 'believing' was sufficient to 'get through'.

yeah, i definitely think there are certain thresholds of illness past which no amount of positive thinking will cure you.

that reminds me, though, yesterday i came across a link that i posted in the "internet sites to check out". it talks about a curious phenomenon known as the "third man factor". wanted to post a topic about it but not sure how to approach it. i think it may relate somewhat to beliefs but in an indirect way.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...nce-inspiring-survive.html

basically, it talks about how certain individuals, when pushed to the limits of their survival, will develop the sensation of an "other" person guiding them to their survival. neuroscientists have stumbled onto an area of the brain that appears to explain this phenomenon. still, i think it raises more questions than it answers. after all, it suggests scientifically that we have access to more information than we are consciously aware of. if such a "switch" can lead us safely out of a building under terrorist attack, could such a switch lead us toward cures for what ails us? food for thought.
Thinker13
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Posted 05/11/11 - 4:42 PM:

libertygrl wrote:
It's true, Christianity teaches that you are born a sinner and that you will spend your entire life as one until you "pay your wages" in death.

(Question for everyone) To what extent would you say belief can cure you of physical illnesses, for example cancer or AIDS?


In the context of the original 'Quantum Mechanics'/ 'Parallel Universe' theories; such positive belief might make you shift to a universe where, either you are exempt from such ailments ( with a variation that everyone else is exempt from them) or remedies for such diseases have been discovered and successfully applied.
libertygrl
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Posted 05/11/11 - 4:53 PM:

Thinker13 wrote:
In the context of the original 'Quantum Mechanics'/ 'Parallel Universe' theories; such positive belief might make you shift to a universe where, either you are exempt from such ailments ( with a variation that everyone else is exempt from them) or remedies for such diseases have been discovered and successfully applied.

if such a transition were possible, likely all memories of the "parallel universe" which you were previously occupying would be lost. so, upon shifting to another universe, it would likely seem that you never had any such ailment to begin with. don't you think?
Thinker13
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Posted 05/12/11 - 2:57 AM:

lib wrote:
If such a transition were possible, likely all memories of the "parallel universe" which you were previously occupying would be lost. So, upon shifting to another universe, it would likely seem that you never had any such ailment to begin with. Don’t you think?

Well, it is a possibility. As shown in movie ‘The Butterfly Effect’; the subject might have some traces of the memories of all the universes he was in. Similarly, a witness, a drashta can maintain awareness of all the universes among which he switches, realizing that all of them are projections and except him nothing is a constant.

As a thought experiment: Suppose I am given a false memory of things and am convinced about their veracity every time I switch into a parallel universe: In such a case, it is, very much possible that I will believe that I had a unique past which is ‘my past’ without ever doubting my memory because it is the memory using which I doubt.
libertygrl
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Posted 05/21/11 - 5:19 PM:

but do you believe that memory is an intangible thing that can be moved immaterially from one body to the next?
Thinker13
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Posted 05/22/11 - 11:11 AM:

libertygrl wrote:
but do you believe that memory is an intangible thing that can be moved immaterially from one body to the next?


A good question. Let me think on it.
cripes
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cripes
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Posted 05/23/11 - 2:09 AM:

libertygrl wrote:
(Question for everyone) To what extent would you say belief can cure you of physical illnesses, for example cancer or AIDS?
I don't think it can. I do think the brain is capable of inventing or adopting narratives which mimic healing by creating the illusion in order to reduce pain associated with, or derived from anxiety.
henry quirk
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Posted 05/23/11 - 8:56 AM:

"do you believe that memory is an intangible thing that can be moved immaterially from one body to the next?"

Nope: memory (remembering) is what a body 'does'...it's integral to the body and not transferable.
smokinpristiformis
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Posted 05/26/11 - 6:23 AM:

henry quirk wrote:
"do you believe that memory is an intangible thing that can be moved immaterially from one body to the next?"

Nope: memory (remembering) is what a body 'does'...it's integral to the body and not transferable.



With what extremely little understanding I have of the human brain, I think I can add practical weight to this. While perhaps it could be possible to decode the mechanisms of memory on a molecular level at some point in the future, it is probably a sort of 'emerging pattern' and as such nigh impossible to transfer. A wildly complex quantum wave flickering through the phenomenal expanse of the human mind. A copy/paste, if it were possible, probably wouldn't .... meh rolling eyes ... cut it.
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