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nobility

Comments on nobility

libertygrl
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Posted 10/13/09 - 1:24 PM:
Subject: nobility
what is it?

is it something real?

something attainable?

something worthwhile?

your thoughts?
henry quirk
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Posted 10/14/09 - 12:23 PM:

If you mean noble in the sense of having good character...



"what is it?"

Something to be aspired to but never attained.

#

"is it something real?"

Only in the heads of those who aspire to it.

#

"something attainable?"

No.

#

"something worthwhile?"

Only to the one who aspires to it, and, possibly to those who might benefit from the largess of such a person.

###

If you mean noble in the sense of aristocracy...

Fuck 'em all...I'll bend knee and kiss ring only as a dead meat puppet on strings.
libertygrl
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Posted 10/14/09 - 12:29 PM:

how does one go about aspiring to nobility? not in the aristocratic sense.

would you say that the aspiration and the efforts to achieve it do actually achieve it, even if only to what you would perhaps consider an imperfect degree? if it couldn't be achieved at all, why aspire?
henry quirk
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Posted 10/14/09 - 12:35 PM:

"how does one go about aspiring to nobility?"

I haven't a clue, Liberty. I have no interest in being noble (in character or blood) so... wink

I suppose a place to start might be the prudent application of the golden rule, but, hell, I don't know.

#

"if it couldn't be achieved at all, why aspire?"

Maybe for the same reason any 'one' aspires to the impossible: the 'trying' has value beyond the end goal.

Edited by henry quirk on 10/14/09 - 12:50 PM. Reason: reducing the level of my jackassry
libertygrl
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Posted 10/14/09 - 1:01 PM:

henry quirk wrote:
I have no interest in being noble (in character or blood) so... wink

well you better be careful then. fearless honesty might be regarded a noble trait by some. and bucking the system by others. such is the stuff revolutions are made of, after all.

henry wrote:
Maybe for the same reason any 'one' aspires to the impossible: the 'trying' has value beyond the end goal.

i would agree with that. i would also say the end goal has whatever value was inspired and achieved by the process.
henry quirk
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Posted 10/14/09 - 1:08 PM:

"well you better be careful then. fearless honesty might be regarded a noble trait by some. and bucking the system by others. such is the stuff revolutions are made of, after all."


God save me from the revolutionists!

Bastards all... wink

Much more likely I'll die in a ditch with an empty cigarette box in my hand than it is I'll die leading or participating in or inspiring revolution.

#

"i would also say the end goal has whatever value was inspired and achieved by the process."


Agreed. Interesting too how sometimes the end goal turns out to be other than what sought for...
smokinpristiformis
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Posted 10/14/09 - 1:39 PM:

Nobility, I would say, an advanced advanced version of the social contract. Doing more than necessary


- meh, i had to stop writing suddenly. More later. smiling face

Edited by smokinpristiformis on 10/15/09 - 1:54 AM
henry quirk
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Posted 10/15/09 - 8:23 AM:

"Doing more than necessary"

Awfully general...specificity please... wink
Zum
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Posted 11/16/09 - 6:10 PM:

Noble gases are disinclined to react to other chemicals; for this reason they have been called "inert," a term far less flattering to them.

In the same manner a noble person is conceived as self-reliant, unlikely to be influenced by others, not at all apt to enter lightly into agreements, jealous of his integrity.

The phrase "nobility obliges" states that a person born into privilege
ought to behave well in relation to others and follow a code of honor, both for his own self-esteem and for the reputation of his house. Such requirements demand a very good character.

Certainly there are people who aspire to goals of this kind, and some attain them to a degree. Some martial arts senseis teach a kind of chivalry or combat-nobility, for example. I'd say that a serious effort to acquire any habit, sustained over time, always produces results.

Zum
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#10 - Quote - Permalink
Posted 11/17/09 - 2:40 PM:

Sensei Coleman Ridge, quoting another sensei: "If you have no technique, you die. If you have only technique, you kill. If you have technique and chivalry, you protect your opponent."
henry quirk
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#11 - Quote - Permalink
Posted 11/20/09 - 11:30 AM:

"...If you have technique and chivalry, you protect your opponent."

And why would I want to do that?

If he or she is my opponent (enemy) then I want to crush or kill them (literally or figuratively).

Why would I want to protect that I want 'gone'?

I've illustrated my lack of 'nobility', I think... wink
Zum
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Posted 11/21/09 - 6:09 PM:

"And why would I want to do that?" Inexplicable, not because irrational, but because positioned in a specific order of consideration and ethical orientation. wink

Having said that, I'll ignore it. I notice you use the word "would," and not "should," above. Cool.

You would want to do it if you were a martial artist one of whose goals was to attain skill in the fighting arts without becoming evil in the process. At least two of the arts actually have that goal imbedded in the techniques and underlying philosophy.

That doesn't quite answer the question, which was "Why would I want to do that?" But it's close. The true, though uninformative, answer, I guess, is, "You would not want to do it," but that is a question you yourself answer, in the next sentence...zen

Zum
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Posted 11/22/09 - 10:46 AM:

Didn't mean to be rude, Dude...I hope you understand. heart
henry quirk
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Posted 11/23/09 - 1:38 PM:

I amend: why would or should I do that?

#

"a martial artist"

I'm not a martial artist.

#

"...attain skill in the fighting arts without becoming evil in the process."

I don't see the connection between improving the skill to kill or hurt or restrain and an increase in personal 'evil'.

Evil is for shit anyway...one man's evil is another's freedom fight is another's pedestrian expression.

#

"At least two of the arts actually have that goal imbedded in the techniques and underlying philosophy."

So: it's one of the embedded goals of two martial disciplines to instill flaw in the fighter.

#

"You would not want to do it?"

To rephrase my answer more directly: to hobble one's capacity for violence (and you can dress the martial disciplines up as you like, skilled violence is what they ALL are) with morality is idiotic.

#

"Didn't mean to be rude, Dude..."

You haven’t even begun to be rude...I can give you lessons, if you like... wink

#

"...I hope you understand."

Better than you probably think... smiling face
Zum
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Posted 11/25/09 - 10:48 AM:

"One man's evil is another man's freedom fight."

Relatively true.

But what if relativity is itself relative? smiling face
henry quirk
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#16 - Quote - Permalink
Posted 11/30/09 - 10:58 AM:

"But what if relativity is itself relative?"

I haven't clue how to respond...HA!
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