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The Dominant Seven

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Zum
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Zum
#51 - Quote - Permalink
Posted 05/27/09 - 11:18 AM:

You're welcome.

For sure! smiling face No doctor appropriates his patient's illnesses--or so one hopes.

A word like "neurosis" gives an important-sounding title to what had been mere private suffering, frustration and self-blame; the suffering acquires a publicly recognized identity; the word "neurosis" gives the person a new attribute; the enhanced identity allows him or her to transfer blame to somebody or something else. The temptations are multiple...probably irresistible.
Thinker13
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#52 - Quote - Permalink
Posted 05/27/09 - 11:42 AM:

Zum wrote:

A word like "neurosis" gives an important-sounding title to what had been mere private suffering, frustration and self-blame; the suffering acquires a publicly recognized identity; the word "neurosis" gives the person a new attribute; the enhanced identity allows him or her to transfer blame to somebody or something else. The temptations are multiple...probably irresistible.


Other than just being able to transfer the blame,what a great boon it is to draw attention of doctor,family,friends and others,which was hitherto a rare commoditywink. It is because of being 'special' that you draw attention to yourself,a great nourishment for you. You draw attention either by being good /bad OR by being healthy/diseased.But you draw it mustgrin.Perhaps,I am wrong because part of being 'healthy' means being able to refrain from urges to draw attention,not being 'show-offs'?




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Zum
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#53 - Quote - Permalink
Posted 06/05/09 - 9:02 AM:

I'm for giving a lot of power to the project at hand. Water it with enthusiasm. Feed it with positive energy. Treat it really well, as you would a cherished friend or lover. Give it presents, encouragement, praise.

Ignore and neglect the negative energy.

Zum
Thinker13
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#54 - Quote - Permalink
Posted 06/05/09 - 10:15 PM:

Zum wrote:
I'm for giving a lot of power to the project at hand. Water it with enthusiasm. Feed it with positive energy. Treat it really well, as you would a cherished friend or lover. Give it presents, encouragement, praise.

Ignore and neglect the negative energy.

Zum



Good perspective. A lot like your much esteemed friend,Nietzsche. Isn't it?


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Zum
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Zum
#55 - Quote - Permalink
Posted 06/05/09 - 11:13 PM:

Yes, definitely like my bud. You know, it's amazing how everything can be improved and developed through practice. Ordinary practice. Out on my street I see kids possessed of the most fantastic, unbelievable patience, practicing their skateboard tricks. And the things they want to do with the boards are clearly impossible. Any sensible person can SEE that they are impossible ...
Except that some kids can do them.
So here's the streetkid recipe for achievement: become a kid and thus become unable to see that your project is impossible.
At the same time become a fifty-year-old Tibetan monk with heroic patience...

So the ability to give something enthusiasm requires practice. Even the ability to HAVE enthusiasm requires practice.

Zum


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#56 - Quote - Permalink
Posted 06/06/09 - 2:39 AM:

Zum wrote:
Yes, definitely like my bud. You know, it's amazing how everything can be improved and developed through practice. Ordinary practice.


Not everything and not always.Those who aspire to be enlightened give up the effort to be after an extent.



Zum wrote:

Out on my street I see kids possessed of the most fantastic, unbelievable patience, practicing their skateboard tricks. And the things they want to do with the boards are clearly impossible. Any sensible person can SEE that they are impossible ...
Except that some kids can do them.
So here's the streetkid recipe for achievement: become a kid and thus become unable to see that your project is impossible.
At the same time become a fifty-year-old Tibetan monk with heroic patience...


You seem to be missing a certain point. Those who play for the love of game, never try to achieve a thing and it is the love of the playing itself which drives them so hard. So you have not to be someone else,be yourself,do what you love and that is it.



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Zum
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Zum
#57 - Quote - Permalink
Posted 06/06/09 - 9:15 AM:

Thinker, I just want to thank you for the elegant post, so very relevant.

I may or may not understand the phrase "to be after an extent." Can you

explain?

Zum
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#58 - Quote - Permalink
Posted 06/06/09 - 9:46 AM:

Zum wrote:
Thinker, I just want to thank you for the elegant post, so very relevant.



You are welcome,Zumzen


Zum wrote:

I may or may not understand the phrase "to be after an extent." Can you

explain?

Zum


To be means to do an effort to change yourself. It means you are not content with what you already are. It means you are in conflict with your present,since,a model which,you are trying to emulate,exists,only in your imagination,in future. There are various sources which say that an aspirant cannot attain nirvana until he has not given up the effort to attain nirvana. Seems paradoxical?


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Zum
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Zum
#59 - Quote - Permalink
Posted 06/06/09 - 9:53 AM:

Only on the verbal level.

But I'm recasting your last sentence a bit. Tell me, is it "There are various sources which say that an aspirant cannot attain nirvana until he HAS given up the effort to attain nirvana"?


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#60 - Quote - Permalink
Posted 06/06/09 - 9:56 AM:

Zum wrote:
Only on the verbal level.


What?


Zum wrote:

But I'm recasting your last sentence a bit. Tell me, is it "There are various sources which say that an aspirant cannot attain nirvana until he HAS given up the effort to attain nirvana"?


No. I stand by the original sentence of mine.smiling face


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Edited by Thinker13 on 06/06/09 - 10:06 AM
Zum
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#61 - Quote - Permalink
Posted 06/07/09 - 6:55 PM:

Aha. All right. "Until he has not given up" suggests to me that the effort must persist. The achievement of Nirvana, then, is like the achievement of building a house. The house does not get built unless the builders keep on hammering. I was looking for a parallelism between the statement about Nirvana and the statement about skateboarding: the kids are playing, not striving through an exercise of will.

(Incidentally, as I look at it now, it seems to me that the kids are actually doing both. They are little guys, possessed of male energy, and male energy works that way: play has an element--if not of strife, then, at least, of ASPIRATION--don't you agree?) I tried without success to find an aspiring-looking smilie.

Zum
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#62 - Quote - Permalink
Posted 06/07/09 - 7:00 PM:

Zum wrote:
Aha. All right. "Until he has not given up" suggests to me that the effort must persist. The achievement of Nirvana, then, is like the achievement of building a house. The house does not get built unless the builders keep on hammering. I was looking for a parallelism between the statement about Nirvana and the statement about skateboarding: the kids are playing, not striving through an exercise of will.

(Incidentally, as I look at it now, it seems to me that the kids are actually doing both. They are little guys, possessed of male energy, and male energy works that way: play has an element--if not of strife, then, at least, of ASPIRATION--don't you agree?) I tried without success to find an aspiring-looking smilie.

Zum



Oh! something WRONG has been communicated on my behalf. Intend to say that " There comes a time when all efforts have to cease,then only,an aspirant can attain salvation,and if,efforts do not cease,he cannot become liberated. Hope it clears it up".


Thank Youzen
Zum
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#63 - Quote - Permalink
Posted 06/11/09 - 3:41 AM:

Okay. This becomes understandable, then, or at least it becomes an idea I've heard before...

At the Met in NYC I saw an exhibit of Chinese brushwork: the artists used black ink on white paper; the paintings were the result of a single gesture. The work of one artist was particularly stunning: his animals, birds and insects lived, sang, and crawled. A statement about his process appeared near his work: "After twenty-five years I can do this work without effort."
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#64 - Quote - Permalink
Posted 06/11/09 - 7:35 AM:

Zum wrote:

At the Met in NYC I saw an exhibit of Chinese brushwork: the artists used black ink on white paper; the paintings were the result of a single gesture. The work of one artist was particularly stunning: his animals, birds and insects lived, sang, and crawled. A statement about his process appeared near his work: "After twenty-five years I can do this work without effort."



A good example.smiling face A similar story,related to a different idea:

"There was a drawing competition,and the time given to draw a painting on-spot was an hour. Everyone brought their tools and with as much precision as possible,started making their paintings. A guy was not doing anything,just made a circle and looking at it,pondered for a very long time. When competition was just about to end,everyone made a great haste to finish-off their work. Some of them were making shades better,others were arranging shapes and some others decorating them further. The guy mentioned above did noting,and just made a point in the circle. The guy was given the first prize."



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Zum
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#65 - Quote - Permalink
Posted 06/11/09 - 10:11 AM:

You said that your story was related to a different idea...

What idea?smiling face
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#66 - Quote - Permalink
Posted 06/11/09 - 12:57 PM:

Zum wrote:
You said that your story was related to a different idea...

What idea?smiling face



Idea of effortless perfection. The guy was given first prize because,without using any instrument he found the true center of the circle(Though,true center,a point, is an imaginary concept,you knowwink) and this was result of his perfection borne out of his years and years of labor. This story came to my mind because it is similar to that of yours.smiling face


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Zum
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Zum
#67 - Quote - Permalink
Posted 06/11/09 - 1:36 PM:

Great tale. Thanks!



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#68 - Quote - Permalink
Posted 06/11/09 - 1:40 PM:

Zum wrote:
Great tale. Thanks!


Welcome,Zum.
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