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The Dominant Seven

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smokinpristiformis
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#26 - Quote - Permalink
Posted 05/19/09 - 7:36 AM:

Actually we do have a split, then connected, brain. Sort of two personalities as well - each of the halves of our brain has a different perspective - and that does have an effect on us.
One of our teachers at the uni even told us we are unhappy when the two halves of our brains disagree. Those courses were probably the most interesting I got.

People who got their brain separated in two in a 'corpus callosotomy' (whereby the corpus callosum is cut in half - an outdated procedure that was used against epilepsy), show the differences between our two persona more clearly, because within them, two minds are seperately developing.

Wicked, intense, weird, spectacular. It's all in your mind. smiling face
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#27 - Quote - Permalink
Posted 05/19/09 - 12:50 PM:

smokinpristiformis wrote:
Actually we do have a split, then connected, brain. Sort of two personalities as well - each of the halves of our brain has a different perspective - and that does have an effect on us.
One of our teachers at the uni even told us we are unhappy when the two halves of our brains disagree. Those courses were probably the most interesting I got.


It is indeed a fact that increased harmony between the two hemispheres results in more peace and creativity.Still,I will not buy the personality claims.In general psychology,there is an inclination to attribute functions like logic/creativity to left/right hemispheres,which is a wrong practice.
Wiki wrote:

Popular psychology tends to make broad and sometimes pseudoscientific generalizations about certain functions (e.g. logic, creativity) being lateral, that is, located in either the right or the left side of the brain. Researchers often criticize popular psychology for this, because the popular lateralizations often are distributed across both hemispheres
.



People who got their brain separated in two in a 'corpus callosotomy' (whereby the corpus callosum is cut in half - an outdated procedure that was used against epilepsy), show the differences between our two persona more clearly, because within them, two minds are seperately developing.


split brain wrote:

A patient with a split brain, when shown an image in his or her left visual field (that is, the left half of what both eyes see), will be unable to name what he or she has seen. This is because the speech-control center is in the left side of the brain in most people, and the image from the left visual field is sent only to the right side of the brain. (Those with the speech control center in the right side will experience similar symptoms when an image is presented in the right visual field.) Since communication between the two sides of the brain is inhibited, the patient cannot name what the right side of the brain is seeing. The person can, however, pick up and show recognition of an object (one within the left overall visual field) with their left hand, since that hand is controlled by the right side of the brain.
.

I do not think that there is an evidence of split personalities in different hemispheres.Neither due to callotomy nor due to hemispherectomy,there has been cases of split personalities.Though,confabulations have resulted due to the same.



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#28 - Quote - Permalink
Posted 05/20/09 - 6:33 AM:

As a variation on our theme-- Nietzsche, especially in his early books, fooled around with a concept of multiples souls--as he called them. For him,they are drives that complete against each other and against all outward influences--like other people; they yammer, they want their way, they try to turn every occasion to their benefit, each wants full control of the field of consciousness.

For Nietzsche, true power would be a unity of spirit and intent-- a unity sufficient to work at his desk ten hours a day-- but most humans are subject to the competitive rabble described above... There is, he says, within humans in the normal condition, a power bid behind nearly every action and affect. The whimpering of sick and depressed people is an exercise of power over those it upsets. The whimperer has one power left. Benefiting and hurting have power as their aim. Hurting can be the richer means because it is more likely to call attention to its source. One gives thanks because a benefactor has invaded our sphere of power; by thanking him, we invade his sphere in return: gratitude is a form of revenge.

He is not advocating this, just noting it. His view of human nature in the raw is not flattering.

His wittiest comment is a variant on St. Luke: He who is humble wants to be exalted.

Most of this stuff is from his early books Dawn and Human, All Too Human.

Zum







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#29 - Quote - Permalink
Posted 05/20/09 - 7:11 AM:

Zum wrote:

There is, he says, within humans in the normal condition, a power bid behind nearly every action and affect. The whimpering of sick and depressed people is an exercise of power over those it upsets. The whimperer has one power left.


'Power' is not an essential goal,'happiness' is.Behind each and every action,there is the desire to be happier.To seek happiness is humane.Everyone seeks it in a way his wisdom or lack of it allows.


Zum wrote:

Benefiting and hurting have power as their aim. Hurting can be the richer means because it is more likely to call attention to its source. One gives thanks because a benefactor has invaded our sphere of power; by thanking him, we invade his sphere in return: gratitude is a form of revenge.


As I have already proposed,benefiting and hurting are done to gain happiness.To seek attention is also driven by the same and some very extrovert individuals,politicians,actors,celebrities are habitual of attentiongrin,they start aging faster in absence of itsticking out tongue


Zum wrote:

His wittiest comment is a variant on St. Luke: He who is humble wants to be exalted.
.

I like this witty remark.Actually,I believe something similar:

raised eyebrowTrue humility,if any,is unintentional,like the fragrance of flower,borne out of sensitivity,Tao.
raised eyebrowMostly there is arrogance behind humility,pretenders of humility are most dangerous hypocrites and tend to take their revenge with all might if they are not exalted in return of their humility.





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#30 - Quote - Permalink
Posted 05/20/09 - 7:14 AM:

Zum wrote:
One gives thanks because a benefactor has invaded our sphere of power; by thanking him, we invade his sphere in return: gratitude is a form of revenge.


Something similar is in the expression of repentance.By saying sorry,you want to put burden back on your neighbor.grin



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#31 - Quote - Permalink
Posted 05/20/09 - 2:15 PM:

For Nietzsche, power, indifferent to good and evil, cleverly selects the most advantageous mask.

Effect of happiness.-The first effect of
happiness is the feeling of power: this
wants to express itself either to us our-
selves, or to other men, or to ideas or
imaginary beings. The most common modes of
expression are: to bestow, to mock, to
destroy--all three are out of a common basic
drive. (Daybreak)

According to him, feelings of power can be based either on something real or on something fictitious. In Daybreak Nietzsche talks about people who pride themselves on their self-sacrifice to a prince or to a god: the sacrifice is merely apparent; actually, these people participate imaginatively in his power, transforming themselves in thought into gods and relishing the apotheosis. The foreground, self-sacrifice, is fictitious, and so is the background, the participation in power.

Power is the medium of these exchanges, but these guys are petty tradesmen fussing over their nickel and dime profits. They are likely to stay poor. They spend when they should save. The whimperer trades an opportunity to increase his patience--thereby his self-respect and power--for the immediate pleasure of hurting. The petty tradesmen cannot wait, and cannot make the distinction between the apparent and the real, or between themselves and the other. The political sychophant prefers imaginary power now to real power later; by blurring the distinction between himself and the prince, he pretends that he participates in governing the realm.

Fritz Nietzsche thought that he needed to sell it all and identify wholly with an adored personal project...

Zum
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#32 - Quote - Permalink
Posted 05/21/09 - 11:55 AM:

Zum wrote:
For Nietzsche, power, indifferent to good and evil, cleverly selects the most advantageous mask.


Happiness is quintessence of all advantages,so,you seek nothing but happiness in myriads of forms.zen



They spend when they should save.


Specially,during,global recession,lollaughing



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#33 - Quote - Permalink
Posted 05/21/09 - 12:47 PM:

You're welcome, Thinker.

So Fritz Nietzsche says that what is called "self-discipline" is ONE way of coming to dominate petty drives, which are like irritable children, gimme, I wanta, whencanwe, arewethereyet; but that this technique has its costs. The passage is actually very funny. Such moralities, he says...

afflict (a person) with a peculiar disease;
namely, a constant irritability in the face
of all natural stirrings and inclinations . . .
No longer may he entrust himself to any in-
stinct or free wing-beat; he stands in a fixed
position that wards off, armed against himself . . .
the eternal guardian of his castle, since he has
turned himself into a castle . . .he can achieve
greatness this way. But he has certainly become
insufferable for others . . .and impoverished and
cut off from the most beautiful fortuities of his
soul. Also from all further instruction. . .

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#34 - Quote - Permalink
Posted 05/21/09 - 11:18 PM:

And what he does recommend--at least for himself--is all-out dedication to an enterprise or task or creative project that one loves and has always loved.

By doing we forego.--At bottom I abhor all those moralities which say: "Do not do this! Renounce . . ." But I am well disposed toward those moralities which goad me to do something and do it again, from morning till evening, and then to dream of it at night and to think of nothing except doing this well, as well as I alone can do it. When one lives like this, one thing after another that simply does not belong to such a life drops off. With hatred or aversion one sees this take its leave today and that tomorrow, like yellow leaves . . heart

Zum
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#35 - Quote - Permalink
Posted 05/22/09 - 2:38 PM:

Zum wrote:

that this technique has its costs. The passage is actually very funny.


Indeed.I enjoyed reading the passage.Interesting to note is-You call him 'Fritz'-why?kooky


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#36 - Quote - Permalink
Posted 05/22/09 - 2:43 PM:

Zum wrote:
And what he does recommend--at least for himself--is all-out dedication to an enterprise or task or creative project that one loves and has always loved.



Peculiar.Isn't it?

Zum wrote:

By doing we forego.--At bottom I abhor all those moralities which say: "Do not do this! Renounce . . ." But I am well disposed toward those moralities which goad me to do something and do it again, from morning till evening, and then to dream of it at night and to think of nothing except doing this well, as well as I alone can do it. When one lives like this, one thing after another that simply does not belong to such a life drops off. With hatred or aversion one sees this take its leave today and that tomorrow, like yellow leaves . . heart

Zum


So he chooses to "The cost of the technique deployed to ward off nasty drives"clap.That which does not kill you makes you stronger-so why not to let those drives do what they want instead of deploying aforementioned technique?grin


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#37 - Quote - Permalink
Posted 05/22/09 - 4:22 PM:

You're welcome, Thinker.

I call him Fritz partly because I have an affinity for syllables that contain the letter "z". Partly because his first name was Friedrich, for which Fritz is the little-boy nickname. Partly because I feel that I know him personally. Partly because I wish to dispel some of the mystique around him and to acknowledge the humanity I know he possessed.smiling face

I think that Nietzsche did not like living with a mob, especially an interior mob, did not like being dragged around like a cart, or a slave, and adored freedom. In Zarathustra he explains that only a spirit that has undergone two metamorphoses and rests in a third is free. For him, freedom was creative play, a new word and a new beginning.

The drives, with their yelping and whimpering, could not stand up against that....
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#38 - Quote - Permalink
Posted 05/23/09 - 12:39 PM:

Zum wrote:
You're welcome, Thinker.

I call him Fritz partly because I have an affinity for syllables that contain the letter "z". Partly because his first name was Friedrich, for which Fritz is the little-boy nickname. Partly because I feel that I know him personally. Partly because I wish to dispel some of the mystique around him and to acknowledge the humanity I know he possessed.smiling face


Seems like you have made him a friendsticking out tongue

Dictionary wrote:
fritz
n. Informal
A condition in which something does not work properly: Our television is on the fritz.


Zum wrote:

In Zarathustra he explains that only a spirit that has undergone two metamorphoses and rests in a third is free.


What does it mean?smiling face

Zum wrote:

The drives, with their yelping and whimpering, could not stand up against that....


Yes.



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#39 - Quote - Permalink
Posted 05/23/09 - 1:40 PM:

You're welcome.

Now I must confess that one of Nietzsche's attractive features, for me, is the WRITING, as ably translated by Walter Kaufmann.

The first metamorphosis of the spirit involves self-discipline and self-mortification of every sort, he says; the spirit is a camel, a "strong, reverent spirit that would bear much"; this camel-spirit takes on itself whatever is hardest.

What is difficult? . . .Is it not humbling
oneself to wound one's haughtiness . . .
parting from our cause when it triumphs?
Climbing high mountains that tempt the
tempter? . . .feeding on the acorns and
grass of knowledge and for the sake of truth,
suffering hunger in one's soul? . . . being
sick and sending home the comforters, and
making friends with the deaf, who never hear
what you want? . . .stepping into filthy
waters when they are the waters of truth, and
loving those who despise us and offering a
hand to the ghost that would frighten us?
-Zarathustra

And that's only the first step.eek

Fun to ask oneself which of those one would least willing to do. I think for me it would be the filthy waters of truth. Some of the other stuff sounds familiar...wink
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#40 - Quote - Permalink
Posted 05/24/09 - 1:10 AM:

Now once the spirit has made itself strong, it transforms itself--according to Fritz--from a docile, subservient beast to a fearsome one, the lion. By voluntarily making itself a beast of burden, the spirit has learned to command itself; now, as the lion, it can slay the dragon called "Thou Shalt."

All value of all things shines on me. All
value has long been created, and I am all
created value. There shall be no more
"I will."

Fritz was aware of the pressure, blatant and subtle, brought to bear against people who want to create something new in the world. Leonine courage together with self-discipline are needed to overcome these ubiquitous influences...
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#41 - Quote - Permalink
Posted 05/24/09 - 10:44 AM:

When able to ignore "thou shalt" and say "I will," the spirit has achieved the possibility of creative freedom. It is free to PLAY. smiling face Nietzsche seems to have experienced adult life in 19th century Germany as profoundly anti-play...shaking head

But say, my brother, what can the child do
that even the lion could not do? Why must
the preying lion still become a child? A
child is innocence and forgetting, a new
beginning, a game, a self-propelled wheel, a
first movement, a sacred "yes." For the game
of creation, my brothers, a sacred "yes" is
needed: the spirit now wills his own will,
and he who has been lost to the world now
conquers his own world.

When you read him closely, you begin to see that there is more in all this than high-sounding prose. These are the insights of a man who really, really wanted to do something new, something his own, who knew that he didn't have a whole lot of time.

Zum
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#42 - Quote - Permalink
Posted 05/24/09 - 4:53 PM:

Zum wrote:

When you read him closely, you begin to see that there is more in all this than high-sounding prose. These are the insights of a man who really, really wanted to do something new, something his own, who knew that he didn't have a whole lot of time.

Zum


Indeed.A true rebel,a truly independent thinker.He had some original insights.What do you think is the difference between independent thinkers like Freud and Nietzsche?I am following you,keep up the good workzen



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#43 - Quote - Permalink
Posted 05/24/09 - 10:46 PM:

You're welcome, Thinker.zen

I haven't put in the time on Freud that I have on Nietzsche...
Both were part of the project of redrawing the map concerning "human nature." The maps drawn by religious organizations were still relatively uncontested and the territories mapped still relatively unexplored. Freud's work was empirical and theoretical. Nietzsche's background was in philology; he did not, of course, see patients. He had read "all" the books. When he read, he read with his whole being: mind, heart, stomach, sensitivity. Freud was a doctor; doctors are and must be interested in illness; arguably, they are in danger of becoming more enamored of illness than of the cure. Nietzsche, who was unwell throughout the ten years of his philosophical activity, sought health as a concept and as a condition, expanding the notion of health from bodily wellness to something he called "great health." This condition would include as its major component the freedom to see and to create. (As a young man, Nietzsche read Emerson, author of "Self Reliance" in translation, loved the man and his work, and regretted that Emerson lacked the rigor of the real philosopher.) Both Freud and Nietzsche were furiously ambitious...

So Freud got his ideas from very unhappy people who, as a last resort, came to see him. (This is just the stuff that everybody knows...) Many, or maybe all of the patients were unhappy in the area of their sexual life; in some cases these troubles had started early on. By getting them to talk in the clinical setting, Freud was able to connect their past events with their present neuroses. As a result of his work, it came to public awareness that the way you treat your kids matters... On the basis of the clinical work, Freud drew a map of the psyche in which sexuality was given a central place... Now I really don't know whether Freud thought that his map was merely a useful guide for the clinician, or whether he thought it had objective, universal significance... Maybe somebody else in Forum knows this.
One thing Nietzsche had going for him seems to have been his passionate scholarship. His interest went way beyond wanting to be able to debate; he wanted to KNOW. He talks about THIRST for knowledge, greed for knowledge. He also had the dual advantage of speculative and poetic tendencies. He had a sick man's loathing of illness; he saw it where it was. Right away. Nietzsche's insights about authors and philosophers who died years and centuries before his time, if correct, seem to verge on the psychic...
I don't think people read long posts, so I'll limit this one. Unlike Freud's work, Nietzsche's was based on the insights that came his way.
He would pick up a notebook, go for a walk, write down the thoughts that came to him, then return and work like a demon.

Zum
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#44 - Quote - Permalink
Posted 05/26/09 - 1:02 PM:

Zum wrote:
You're welcome, Thinker.zen
I haven't put in the time on Freud that I have on Nietzsche...
Both were part of the project of redrawing the map concerning "human nature." The maps drawn by religious organizations were still relatively uncontested and the territories mapped still relatively unexplored.


Whose project? Somebody said "We are our own maps",or something similar;do you recall who did?This religious drawing of maps must have begun somewhere in history,as a part to define mysterious,in and out of human.And later on got converted into taboos,superstitions and propaganda and lastly into the marketing.zen


Zum wrote:

Freud's work was empirical and theoretical. Nietzsche's background was in philology; he did not, of course, see patients. He had read "all" the books. When he read, he read with his whole being: mind, heart, stomach, sensitivity. Freud was a doctor; doctors are and must be interested in illness; arguably, they are in danger of becoming more enamored of illness than of the cure.


You seem to have a bit of aversion to Freud(Am I correct?)--Exactly why? Awareness of illness is not reinforcement of illness but rather reinforcement of sensitivity in general.I am not fond of Freud Or Nietzsche.I feel that Nietzsche does seem to be a greater man of genius,still,Freud has been strikingly accurate at times,in my own experience,in the depiction of psyches of children, in particular.It is also worthy of being noticed that,if,we could learn to understand psyche of a child,we can interpret entirety of life of a man,as if,experiences of a mature age have very little to do with the core of your persona.


Zum wrote:

Nietzsche, who was unwell throughout the ten years of his philosophical activity, sought health as a concept and as a condition, expanding the notion of health from bodily wellness to something he called "great health."


I know by now that you have a penchant for Nietzsche.In a book called "The History Of Western Philosophy"-Bertrand Russel portrayed Nietzsche as a faint man daydreaming consistently of 'Ubermensch'.He emphasized that the superhuman of Nietzsche was indeed a flight from his own weakness,to transcend his limitations,to transcend pain.His superhuman is devoid of feelings,is a warrior. Nietzsche spent his time among soldiers as a doctor and wanted to be a fighter himself,but,was denied of it,due to his infirmity.May I ask you to express your views on Nietzsche's "Do not forget thy whip when you go to woman" statement? Though,do not take it as a confrontation please.I do not want to make you feel bad about Nietzsche.Just wanted to know your views.


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#45 - Quote - Permalink
Posted 05/26/09 - 1:55 PM:

Zum wrote:
This condition would include as its major component the freedom to see and to create. (As a young man, Nietzsche read Emerson, author of "Self Reliance" in translation, loved the man and his work, and regretted that Emerson lacked the rigor of the real philosopher.) Both Freud and Nietzsche were furiously ambitious...


Nietzsche spent his childhood as well as his adolescence under three women in his house.Had this to do something with his aversion as cited in my earlier post?Had this to do something with his sensitivity?

Is "Furiously Ambitious" connected to excessively independent thinking?I think,'yes'.What do you ?


Zum wrote:

So Freud got his ideas from very unhappy people who, as a last resort, came to see him. (This is just the stuff that everybody knows...) Many, or maybe all of the patients were unhappy in the area of their sexual life; in some cases these troubles had started early on. By getting them to talk in the clinical setting, Freud was able to connect their past events with their present neuroses.


May be you are not at all insinuating "enamored to illness.." again.Do you know four noble truths,as preached by Buddha? The very first one says "There is Dukkha{SUFFERING}".How did he came to know about it?Through,ill people,of course.zen


Dale Carnegie wrote:

One of the greatest listeners of modern times was Sigmund Freud.A man who met Freud,described his manner of listening. "It struck me so forcibly that I shall never forget him.He had qualities which I have never seen in any other man.Never had I seen such concentrated attention. There was none of the piercing "Soul Penetrating gaze"business.His eyes were mild and genial.His voice was low and kind.His gestures were few.But attention he gave me,his appreciation of what I said,even when I said it badly,was extraordinary.You've no idea what it meant to be listened like that





As a result of his work, it came to public awareness that the way you treat your kids matters... On the basis of the clinical work, Freud drew a map of the psyche in which sexuality was given a central place... Now I really don't know whether Freud thought that his map was merely a useful guide for the clinician, or whether he thought it had objective, universal significance... Maybe somebody else in Forum knows this.


Hope so. zen


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#46 - Quote - Permalink
Posted 05/26/09 - 2:07 PM:

Zum wrote:

One thing Nietzsche had going for him seems to have been his passionate scholarship. His interest went way beyond wanting to be able to debate; he wanted to KNOW. He talks about THIRST for knowledge, greed for knowledge. He also had the dual advantage of speculative and poetic tendencies.


Good observations.Indeed,he was a poet extraordinaire.smiling face



He had a sick man's loathing of illness; he saw it where it was. Right away. Nietzsche's insights about authors and philosophers who died years and centuries before his time, if correct, seem to verge on the psychic...


Acute intelligence makes you somewhat 'psychic'.Einstein,Nietzsche and many other 'peaks' of humanity belong to this category.You might have realized that works of Jeorge Orwell,Issac Asimov etc were prophecies,while they were not even attempting to be prophets.Even Nietzsche predicted "World wars" and "Nazism/Fascism" OR did he reinforce them?You are more likely to answer it well,methinkszen



I don't think people read long posts, so I'll limit this one. Unlike Freud's work, Nietzsche's was based on the insights that came his way.
He would pick up a notebook, go for a walk, write down the thoughts that came to him, then return and work like a demon.
Zum


It was indeed a lovely post,Zumtakes a bow.Insights are always dependent on some sort of stimuli.Jung/Nietzsche relied on their internal/subliminal insights while Freud cogitated on his external subjects,in a clinical approach,as you have suggested.A simile(perhaps a poor one) may be-Darwin and Einstein--both of them have revolutionized science -former in Freudian way(extraverted) and latter in Jungian way(introverted).



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#47 - Quote - Permalink
Posted 05/26/09 - 2:29 PM:

You're welcome, Thinker. I'll respond to your responses.

The map of human nature probably needs to be redrawn with every major shift in human consciousness...right? These shifts often accompany big historical events--as of course you know. For Nietzsche the big deal, or one of them, was the event he calls "the death of God." I believe he was speaking of the loss of the power of the concept of God in Western society.

Thank you for noticing my aversion to Freud. It is baseless and unjust. I really have not read much of him.

Actually, I think that a certain kind of awareness of illness may reinforce susceptibility to it.

What you say about the psyche of children is interesting. So the child is the core person?

I have, of course, run across the view of Nietzsche expressed by Russell. Notice that--in your description of his view, at least-- it is Russell who employs the macho language: "faint man," "daydreaming," "flight from his own weakness," "limitations." The semantics of the passage set out the dichotomy strength/weakness and claim that this dichotomy is central to Nietzsche's personality and work. Yet the suspicion arises that this may be a projection. In Nietzsche there is such variety.
The whip and all that. Well, he invented an entity called "woman," and it was natural for me, reading his stuff, not to take offense, for clearly this invention of his does not relate to me in any way. Universally, that is how a mind, normally rational, justifies a prejudice. And, like all prejudice, his misogyny is lamentable, stupid, unworthy of him, etc, etc. To quote Shakespeare, if you'll pardon me, Nietzsche was "mad north-northwest," even while he was still sane.

There is a shortage both of perfect persons and of writers who are really glorious company. I decided to accept the company and shrug off the imperfection...

And oh yeah. There is the photo of Nietzsche and--Paul Ree, I think-- pulling a cart with Lou Salome riding in it; she is wielding a whip.


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#48 - Quote - Permalink
Posted 05/26/09 - 2:49 PM:

Zum wrote:

These shifts often accompany big historical events--as of course you know. For Nietzsche the big deal, or one of them, was the event he calls "the death of God." I believe he was speaking of the loss of the power of the concept of God in Western society.


Yes,he was.

Zum wrote:

Actually, I think that a certain kind of awareness of illness may reinforce susceptibility to it.


May be,but,still,could you insinuate to Freud?

Zum wrote:

I have, of course, run across the view of Nietzsche expressed by Russell. Notice that--in your description of his view, at least-- it is Russell who employs the macho language: "faint man," "daydreaming," "flight from his own weakness," "limitations." The semantics of the passage set out the dichotomy strength/weakness and claim that this dichotomy is central to Nietzsche's personality and work.


May be it is flaw of my description.Still,in spite of the passage of time,which has lapsed,since I read the book,I feel that I have retained the essence of Russel's ideas.And Russel was not a mean man either.wink


Zum wrote:

Yet the suspicion arises that this may be a projection. In Nietzsche there is such variety.
The whip and all that. Well, he invented an entity called "woman," and it was natural for me, reading his stuff, not to take offense, for clearly this invention of his does not relate to me in any way. Universally, that is how a mind, normally rational, justifies a prejudice. And, like all prejudice, his misogyny is lamentable, stupid, unworthy of him, etc, etc. To quote Shakespeare, if you'll pardon me, Nietzsche was "mad north-northwest," even while he was still sane.



Yes.Good quote.


Zum wrote:

There is a shortage both of perfect persons and of writers who are really glorious company. I decided to accept the company and shrug off the imperfection...


You did right.Perfection is an imaginary accomplishment.


Zum wrote:

And oh yeah. There is the photo of Nietzsche and--Paul Ree, I think-- pulling a cart with Lou Salome riding in it; she is wielding a whip.


Zum



Lollaughing. Have seen thatclap




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Zum
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Zum
#49 - Quote - Permalink
Posted 05/26/09 - 7:19 PM:

I'm certainly willing to say that my comment about illness reinforcing itself, etc., was a waspish remark, and I've already copped to being unfair to Freud.

But, now that you mention it...it seems possible that some people, told that they have a condition such as neurosis or Oedipus complex, might over-identify first with the important-sounding word or phrase, then with the aberration it names.


Thinker13
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#50 - Quote - Permalink
Posted 05/27/09 - 11:00 AM:

Zum wrote:
I'm certainly willing to say that my comment about illness reinforcing itself, etc., was a waspish remark, and I've already copped to being unfair to Freud.


You are correct.smiling face


Zum wrote:

But, now that you mention it...it seems possible that some people, told that they have a condition such as neurosis or Oedipus complex, might over-identify first with the important-sounding word or phrase, then with the aberration it names.


"Over-identified"?Yes,it happens,even with proclivities Introversion/Extraversion too.Though,it has nothing genuine to do with research,diagnosis etc.It happens because of 'illness' itself and again as a matter of our discussion-doctor is very less likely to identify himself with the disorder of patient.



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